[s-cars] NAC - Why is manual and full-time 4wd or AWD mutuallyexclusive in SUVs

[Rit Bellis]

Nothing like popping your mighty 4x4 into 4 low, heading up the snowy trail, 
and discovering you basically have a 2x2 that won't move an inch since one 
front wheel and one back wheel are simply spinning away, while the other two 
wheels just sit there.  ARB lockers used to do the trick and keep you going. 
Full time 4wd will cost you a buttload of gas if you don't need it.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Taka Mizutani" <t44tqtro at gmail.com>
To: "Edward" <audi.ed at gmail.com>
Cc: "s-cars" <s-car-list at audifans.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [s-cars] NAC - Why is manual and full-time 4wd or AWD 
mutuallyexclusive in SUVs


> The only 4WD vehicles available with the manual, off the top of my head:
> Jeep Wrangler
> Jeep Liberty
> Nissan Xterra
>
> The vehicles you mention below are not available with a manual in the US, 
> at
> least- Explorer,
> Pathfinder, 4Runner.
>
> Most of the 4WD trucks lack a real center diff, so if you engage 4WD, the
> front and rear axles are locked at turning at the same rate (like a locked
> center diff). This is not good on dry roads due to driveline binding when
> you turn.
>
> These days, SUVs are pretty luxurious and very far from their utilitarian
> roots- automatic transmissions and AWD is the norm rather than the 
> exception
> now- you have no demand for a manual transmission in that market.
>
> Not to say that you can't have a proper AWD SUV with a manual- the FJ80
> Landcruisers had a manual with the turbodiesel outside of the US and 
> they're
> full-time AWD with lockable center and rear diffs, some even had lockable
> front diffs.
>
> BTW, be very careful with "AWD" trucks these days- a lot of them don't 
> have
> a real AWD system, but rather have triple open diffs and rely on the
> traction control system to brake the slipping wheel to prevent traction
> loss. This does not work in low friction situations like deep snow, slushy
> conditions or ice. To prevent the accidental purchase of one of these 
> "AWD"
> trucks, I'd rather pick one of the "auto-engaging" 4WD systems- like the 
> one
> in the Chevy/GMC Tahoe/Yukon/Avalanche or Nissan Titan/Armada.
>
> Taka
>
>
> On 6/25/07, Edward <audi.ed at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>> Very unrelated to UrS, but I am trying to find a high-clearance vehicle 
>> to
>> tackle water bars so I can stop abusing my poor 95 S6...
>>
>> Much research has landed me the conclusion that the few high-clearance
>> vehicles available with a manual (xterra, for instance) are part-time 4wd
>> only.  Vehicles that in the recent past offered full-time 4wd or AWD and 
>> a
>> manual (pathfinder, 4runner, explorer) only offer part-time with the
>> manual.  (I'm looking at SUVs of this nature as vehicles like all-road 
>> and
>> outback, while higher clearance than a car, do not really offer enough
>> approach angle to actually clear the average BC water bar...)
>>
>> Is there some challenging technical reason for this that audi & subaru
>> have
>> overcome to get AWD and manual in their cars that doesn't scale to a
>> bigger
>> vehicle?  Or is this just a function of market?  Am I only one who wants 
>> a
>> manual and on-dry-road 4wd?  Is there some vehicle I'm missing?
>>
>> Found myself curious and unable to solve on google... figured someone 
>> here
>> *must* know!
>>
>> Thanks (and sorry for the NAC question),
>>
>> Ed
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