[s-cars] NAC - Why is manual and full-time 4wd or AWD mutually exclusive in SUVs

[Taka Mizutani]

True- I didn't even think about the Subaru because the OP was talking about
real offroading and not just bad weather conditions. And I was only talking
about new vehicles.

Otherwise, I'd want a CDI engined MBZ G-Wagen or a turbodiesel FJ80 or FJ90
TLC, neither of which you can get in the US.

I'd go with the Jeep- huge aftermarket makes it easy to set it up exactly
the way you want. Not my cup of tea, but for backwoods driving, I can't
think of a better vehicle.

Taka


On 6/26/07, Robert Myers <bob at chips-ur-s.com> wrote:
>
>
> Taka,
>
> While the scoobie-doo Forester isn't quite a "truck" it has both AWD and
> an available manual tranny and fair to middlin' ground clearance.  Skid
> plates, etc., are also available from the factory.  The 2.5 liter XT
> version has decent performance as well.  My wife likes hers.  I like it too
> but prefer the s-car.
>
> Bob
>
> At 07:27 PM 6/26/2007, Taka Mizutani wrote:
>
> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
> The only 4WD vehicles available with the manual, off the top of my head:
> Jeep Wrangler
> Jeep Liberty
> Nissan Xterra
>
> The vehicles you mention below are not available with a manual in the US,
> at
> least- Explorer,
> Pathfinder, 4Runner.
>
> Most of the 4WD trucks lack a real center diff, so if you engage 4WD, the
> front and rear axles are locked at turning at the same rate (like a locked
> center diff). This is not good on dry roads due to driveline binding when
> you turn.
>
> These days, SUVs are pretty luxurious and very far from their utilitarian
> roots- automatic transmissions and AWD is the norm rather than the
> exception
> now- you have no demand for a manual transmission in that market.
>
> Not to say that you can't have a proper AWD SUV with a manual- the FJ80
> Landcruisers had a manual with the turbodiesel outside of the US and
> they're
> full-time AWD with lockable center and rear diffs, some even had lockable
> front diffs.
>
> BTW, be very careful with "AWD" trucks these days- a lot of them don't
> have
> a real AWD system, but rather have triple open diffs and rely on the
> traction control system to brake the slipping wheel to prevent traction
> loss. This does not work in low friction situations like deep snow, slushy
> conditions or ice. To prevent the accidental purchase of one of these
> "AWD"
> trucks, I'd rather pick one of the "auto-engaging" 4WD systems- like the
> one
> in the Chevy/GMC Tahoe/Yukon/Avalanche or Nissan Titan/Armada.
>
> Taka
>
>
> On 6/25/07, Edward <audi.ed at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> > Very unrelated to UrS, but I am trying to find a high-clearance vehicle
> to
> > tackle water bars so I can stop abusing my poor 95 S6...
> >
> > Much research has landed me the conclusion that the few high-clearance
> > vehicles available with a manual (xterra, for instance) are part-time
> 4wd
> > only.  Vehicles that in the recent past offered full-time 4wd or AWD and
> a
> > manual (pathfinder, 4runner, explorer) only offer part-time with the
> > manual.  (I'm looking at SUVs of this nature as vehicles like all-road
> and
> > outback, while higher clearance than a car, do not really offer enough
> > approach angle to actually clear the average BC water bar...)
> >
> > Is there some challenging technical reason for this that audi & subaru
> > have
> > overcome to get AWD and manual in their cars that doesn't scale to a
> > bigger
> > vehicle?  Or is this just a function of market?  Am I only one who wants
> a
> > manual and on-dry-road 4wd?  Is there some vehicle I'm missing?
> >
> > Found myself curious and unable to solve on google... figured someone
> here
> > *must* know!
> >
> > Thanks (and sorry for the NAC question),
> >
> > Ed
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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