No subject

--------------------
There are definitely a rash of AAN ecu's with ignition driver chips on the
way out. I've never seen any reason yet why our HO kit would have any cause
of it, but it may show a weakness in the chip the stock system may have
hidden longer.

The reason being is our coils have a much, much lower load on the TTL
driver, by a factor of 10 I think. If the chip inside the ECU is starting to
freak out and the output pins are starting to become unstable they may be
turning on the ho coils randomly now with the lower load, as opposed to the
stock POS which required much more current to trigger.

We have a bunch of ECU's here that have flakey coil drivers, the last 'bad'
one I cam across was from a completely stock car, that had never been
chipped or opened, never seen a HO coil in it's life, and the ign driver is
dying. 3 other ECU's here have similar stories. I have a pile of ECU's I can
swap around on the dyno and point out which ones have flakey drivers, and
which dont.
--------------------
And Steve Eiche's:
--------------------
The IC in question is a Bosch proprietary Siemens chip. I've been working on
sourcing them on and off for over a year. Lots of obsolete part suppliers
say that they can source them to me, but when I go to place the order, they
find that they can't actually get them. I've already gotten scammed out of
over $300 from a supposedly reputable supplier in Asia. That said, I am
working with a company right now that may actually come through. We shall
see..
--------------------

Interesting stuff. Brings up lots of questions like "were all the ECU's with
blown chips made around same time? any common ECU rev numbers?... why is
this happening now when they've had these coils on the market for a while?"



John J. Cunningham
jc at j2c3.com
US Mobile +1 (617) 750-5025
China Mobile: +86 (0) 136 6080 9560


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brandon Rogers [mailto:brogers at terrix.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 0:48 AM
> To: 'JC'; 'Mike Sylvester'
> Cc: 'Manuel Sanchez'; s-car-list at audifans.com
> Subject: RE: [s-cars] 034 HO Coil w/ AAN ECU?
>
> Guys-
> For more on the ignition driver chip failures - check out
> this Motorgeek
> thread:
>
> http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=31328#378226&s
> id=648b484f5f2
> f715a1b77ec6e3246f719
>
> Maybe it will clear some things up...then again maybe not.
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JC [mailto:jc at j2c3.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:51 PM
> To: 'Mike Sylvester'; 'Brandon Rogers'
> Cc: 'Manuel Sanchez'; s-car-list at audifans.com
> Subject: RE: [s-cars] 034 HO Coil w/ AAN ECU?
>
>
> Just to chime in here, completely agree with Mike on comments
> about ignition
> coils and "chip failures".  As an incompetent part-time puttering
> electronics dork, I have a real hard time seeing how
> downstream coils could
> cause EPROM failures.  Sure if the new coil drivers (whatever
> they use to
> replace the OEM darlingtons aka "POS" - in Americun car terms
> 'exciters')
> drew too much current vs. stock or if there was some flyback
> phenomena off
> the coils or something I could see components in the ECU
> having trouble, but
> it'd be a real long shot, and even then rather than damage an
> EPROM it'd be
> more likely to be a driver transistor/IC or related passive
> component on the
> output circuit of the ECU.  And it does seem like lots of
> folks have this
> setup without trouble.
>
> Having wasted way too much time trying to fix old electronics screwing
> around with aged circuits, I would suggest a couple of other
> possibilities... If what is happening is that the car
> develops problems and
> replacing the EPROM chip solves it for a while, but it
> eventually recurs, it
> easily could be a bad solder joint or pin connection that
> gets 'reset' when
> the work is done but eventually fails again when the ECU is
> put back in over
> time (with heat a good candidate for contributing factor).
> So Brandon
> while you say "FACT"... don't rule out a tricky mis-leading
> symptom. Happens
> all the time with old electronics crap that you find
> replacing one thing
> gives a temporary fix but reverts to the failure because it's
> not actually
> the root problem... I had a Luxman integrated amp on the
> bench a while ago
> that seemed to have failed output driver transistors.  Put a
> new one in and
> everything seemed fine, couldn't measure a problem in the unit, but
> eventually it would blow. Turned out it was failed solder joints with
> micro-cracks not visible to the eye way far away somewhere
> else on the unit.
> The way to confirm in this case would be to have an EPROM
> reader to truly
> test the chip - if that's what your friend has done then I
> can fully accept
> the fact of 'chip failures' but if its just that swappin
> EPROM chips makes
> the problem go away for a while there is every chance that it
> is in fact
> something else.
>
> If it is indeed the EPROMS are failing, then I would say 99%
> it must be in
> the ECU that is frying the EPROM. Has your guy swapped ECU's
> and had the
> same problem with other ECU's?
>
> BTW, is there a schematic for the AAN ECU anyplace? I'm sure
> the aftermarket
> vendors have all either hand-mapped or purchased it from
> Bosch but I'd love
> to peruse one just for stupidity's sake...
>
> >
> > By ignition chip, do you mean the eprom that gets replaced in an
> > upgrade? I would find that very surprising that an aftermarket coil
> > could cause the ignition eprom to go bad.
> > That chip is not driving anything external to the ECU.
> > It just contains the map.
> >
> > WRT to the 034 coil solution, I have had these for a few years. You
> > can find some installation photos on my site.
> > http://www.urq20v.com/My_other_cars/S6/S6_repair.htm
> >
> > I also went with the 1.8 coils at first and replaced 2 in 2
> weeks. I
> > now believe that the coil failures are due to bad plugs.
> >
> > I had to have the HO coils replaced after about 10k miles.
> > It seemed like something corrosive leaked out of the coil into the
> > connector and melted them away. It was bad on one and starting on
> > another.  034 replaced them all.  It has been another 40k
> without an
> > issue.
> >
> > I don't know if he has changed the plug wires that he
> ships, but the
> > ones I got, were too long to re-install the center part of
> the cover.
> > I have since reworked some 3B wires and machined the inside
> > of my cover so that it fits properly.
> >
> > If you are going to use these on your 3B, the you can swap the ends
> > from the 034 wires onto yours so that they fit the coils.
> >
> > All in all they are working for me, but I have to think there is a
> > cheaper solution out there now.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > www.urq20v.com
> >
> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > Subject: Re: [s-cars] 034 HO Coil w/ AAN ECU?
> > > From: "Brandon Rogers" <brogers at terrix.com>
> > > Date: Wed, December 02, 2009 12:06 pm
> > > To: "'Manuel Sanchez'" <manuelsanchez at starpower.net>,
> > > <s-car-list at audifans.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't know the details - but do know the failures I was
> > told about
> > > do _not_ have to do with being "chipped" - but the way I
> > understand it
> > > is some AAN ECUs are failing - and it is the ignition chip
> > within the
> > > ECU - he _thinks_ it _might_ be due to aftermarket coil systems.
> > > Again - just his theory.  That's why I'm curious about
> > people's direct
> > > experience with this particular coil setup (034) - as I
> > have one I plan to use...
> > >
> > > So far people here seem to have had good experiences....
> > >
> > > So to reiterate:
> > >
> > > Facts:
> > > There have been ignition chip failures in some AAN ECUs
> > >
> > > Theory:
> > > Might be due to aftermarket ignition (coils) - didn't say
> > what kind -
> > > don't know if he even knows...
> > >
> > > Brandon
> > > '84 urquattro 20Vt
> > > '01 S4
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Manuel Sanchez [mailto:manuelsanchez at starpower.net]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:26 AM
> > > To: s-car-list at audifans.com
> > > Cc: brogers at terrix.com
> > > Subject: [s-cars] 034 HO Coil w/ AAN ECU?
> > >
> > >
> > > Brandon,
> > >
> > > I've had the 034 HO coils on my RS2'd car for a couple of
> > years now as well.
> > >
> > > I had some initial "teething" problems that in the end
> > turned out to
> > > be a bad ignition wire (it had a knick in it). Once that
> was chased
> > > down it has been trouble free (knocks on wood).
> > >
> > > My OE setup failed about 15,000 miles ago, so I obviously can't
> > > compare the longevity question with regard to the OE vs
> 034 systems.
> > >
> > > I must admit however that in the dark days on trying to
> chase down
> > > what the problem was with the new system I told myself that
> > I should
> > > have just bought the more expensive OE Coils and OE POS's,
> > after all,
> > > they lasted 100,000 miles.
> > >
> > > Having said that. the 034 HO system is very simple to
> > install, and the
> > > new ignition wire boots are of a different length that
> > allows you to
> > > place the coil pack cover overtop them spark plug wells so
> > you can keep the crud out.
> > >
> > >
> > > I am curious though about these ECU chip failures you write
> > about. Can
> > > you expand a bit more on what the theory or evidence has
> been? What
> > > aftermarket systems have "caused" or been thought to
> cause the Chip
> > > failures? Why does this person surmise that the coils have
> > caused an ECU problem.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Manny
> > >
> > > 95.5 ur S6 Avant (mostly RS2'd)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Dec 1, 2009, at 10:04 PM,
> s-car-list-request at audifans.com wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > >
> > > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 14:53:55 -0700
> > >
> > > From: "Brandon Rogers" <brogers at terrix.com>
> > >
> > > Subject: [s-cars] 034 HO Coil w/ AAN ECU?
> > >
> > > To: <s-car-list at audifans.com>
> > >
> > > Message-ID: <636621FF56584C19A95437D476CAA475 at BCROGERS>
> > >
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Guys-
> > >
> > > Curious what people know about using the 034 HO Coils
> with the AAN
> > > ECU.  Are
> > >
> > > many guys here using the 034 HO Coils?  (Or mostly 1.8T
> > coils (I don't
> > > want
> > >
> > > to do the 1.8T coils)).  Do you guys know of people having
> > any issues?
> > >
> > > Reason I ask is because I know somebody who is seeing a
> > fair number is
> > >
> > > ignition chip failures within the AAN ECUs and he thinks
> > they MIGHT be
> > >
> > > related to aftermarket ignition (coils).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Any BTDT?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Brandon
> > >
> > > '84 ur-quattro 20Vt - going COP
> > >
> > > '01 S4
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > S-CAR-List mailing list
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> >
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