No subject

--------------------
There are definitely a rash of AAN ecu's with ignition driver chips on =
the
way out. I've never seen any reason yet why our HO kit would have any =
cause
of it, but it may show a weakness in the chip the stock system may have
hidden longer.

The reason being is our coils have a much, much lower load on the TTL
driver, by a factor of 10 I think. If the chip inside the ECU is =
starting to
freak out and the output pins are starting to become unstable they may =
be
turning on the ho coils randomly now with the lower load, as opposed to =
the
stock POS which required much more current to trigger.

We have a bunch of ECU's here that have flakey coil drivers, the last =
'bad'
one I cam across was from a completely stock car, that had never been
chipped or opened, never seen a HO coil in it's life, and the ign driver =
is
dying. 3 other ECU's here have similar stories. I have a pile of ECU's I =
can
swap around on the dyno and point out which ones have flakey drivers, =
and
which dont.
--------------------
And Steve Eiche's:
--------------------
The IC in question is a Bosch proprietary Siemens chip. I've been =
working on
sourcing them on and off for over a year. Lots of obsolete part =
suppliers
say that they can source them to me, but when I go to place the order, =
they
find that they can't actually get them. I've already gotten scammed out =
of
over $300 from a supposedly reputable supplier in Asia. That said, I am
working with a company right now that may actually come through. We =
shall
see..
--------------------

Interesting stuff. Brings up lots of questions like "were all the ECU's =
with
blown chips made around same time? any common ECU rev numbers?... why is
this happening now when they've had these coils on the market for a =
while?"



John J. Cunningham
jc at j2c3.com
US Mobile +1 (617) 750-5025
China Mobile: +86 (0) 136 6080 9560


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brandon Rogers [mailto:brogers at terrix.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 0:48 AM
> To: 'JC'; 'Mike Sylvester'
> Cc: 'Manuel Sanchez'; s-car-list at audifans.com
> Subject: RE: [s-cars] 034 HO Coil w/ AAN ECU?
>
> Guys-
> For more on the ignition driver chip failures - check out this=20
> Motorgeek
> thread:
>
> http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3D31328#378226&s
> id=3D648b484f5f2
> f715a1b77ec6e3246f719
>
> Maybe it will clear some things up...then again maybe not.
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JC [mailto:jc at j2c3.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:51 PM
> To: 'Mike Sylvester'; 'Brandon Rogers'
> Cc: 'Manuel Sanchez'; s-car-list at audifans.com
> Subject: RE: [s-cars] 034 HO Coil w/ AAN ECU?
>
>
> Just to chime in here, completely agree with Mike on comments about=20
> ignition coils and "chip failures".  As an incompetent part-time=20
> puttering electronics dork, I have a real hard time seeing how
> downstream coils could
> cause EPROM failures.  Sure if the new coil drivers (whatever
> they use to
> replace the OEM darlingtons aka "POS" - in Americun car terms
> 'exciters')
> drew too much current vs. stock or if there was some flyback
> phenomena off
> the coils or something I could see components in the ECU
> having trouble, but
> it'd be a real long shot, and even then rather than damage an
> EPROM it'd be
> more likely to be a driver transistor/IC or related passive
> component on the
> output circuit of the ECU.  And it does seem like lots of
> folks have this
> setup without trouble.
>
> Having wasted way too much time trying to fix old electronics screwing =

> around with aged circuits, I would suggest a couple of other=20
> possibilities... If what is happening is that the car develops=20
> problems and replacing the EPROM chip solves it for a while, but it
> eventually recurs, it
> easily could be a bad solder joint or pin connection that
> gets 'reset' when
> the work is done but eventually fails again when the ECU is
> put back in over
> time (with heat a good candidate for contributing factor).
> So Brandon
> while you say "FACT"... don't rule out a tricky mis-leading
> symptom. Happens
> all the time with old electronics crap that you find
> replacing one thing
> gives a temporary fix but reverts to the failure because it's
> not actually
> the root problem... I had a Luxman integrated amp on the
> bench a while ago
> that seemed to have failed output driver transistors.  Put a
> new one in and
> everything seemed fine, couldn't measure a problem in the unit, but
> eventually it would blow. Turned out it was failed solder joints with
> micro-cracks not visible to the eye way far away somewhere
> else on the unit.
> The way to confirm in this case would be to have an EPROM
> reader to truly
> test the chip - if that's what your friend has done then I
> can fully accept
> the fact of 'chip failures' but if its just that swappin
> EPROM chips makes
> the problem go away for a while there is every chance that it
> is in fact
> something else.
>
> If it is indeed the EPROMS are failing, then I would say 99% it must=20
> be in the ECU that is frying the EPROM. Has your guy swapped ECU's
> and had the
> same problem with other ECU's?
>
> BTW, is there a schematic for the AAN ECU anyplace? I'm sure the=20
> aftermarket vendors have all either hand-mapped or purchased it from
> Bosch but I'd love
> to peruse one just for stupidity's sake...
>
> >
> > By ignition chip, do you mean the eprom that gets replaced in an=20
> > upgrade? I would find that very surprising that an aftermarket coil=20
> > could cause the ignition eprom to go bad. That chip is not driving=20
> > anything external to the ECU. It just contains the map.
> >
> > WRT to the 034 coil solution, I have had these for a few years. You=20
> > can find some installation photos on my site.=20
> > http://www.urq20v.com/My_other_cars/S6/S6_repair.htm
> >
> > I also went with the 1.8 coils at first and replaced 2 in 2
> weeks. I
> > now believe that the coil failures are due to bad plugs.
> >
> > I had to have the HO coils replaced after about 10k miles. It seemed =

> > like something corrosive leaked out of the coil into the connector=20
> > and melted them away. It was bad on one and starting on another. =20
> > 034 replaced them all.  It has been another 40k
> without an
> > issue.
> >
> > I don't know if he has changed the plug wires that he
> ships, but the
> > ones I got, were too long to re-install the center part of
> the cover.
> > I have since reworked some 3B wires and machined the inside of my=20
> > cover so that it fits properly.
> >
> > If you are going to use these on your 3B, the you can swap the ends=20
> > from the 034 wires onto yours so that they fit the coils.
> >
> > All in all they are working for me, but I have to think there is a=20
> > cheaper solution out there now.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > www.urq20v.com
> >
> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > Subject: Re: [s-cars] 034 HO Coil w/ AAN ECU?
> > > From: "Brandon Rogers" <brogers at terrix.com>
> > > Date: Wed, December 02, 2009 12:06 pm
> > > To: "'Manuel Sanchez'" <manuelsanchez at starpower.net>,=20
> > > <s-car-list at audifans.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't know the details - but do know the failures I was
> > told about
> > > do _not_ have to do with being "chipped" - but the way I
> > understand it
> > > is some AAN ECUs are failing - and it is the ignition chip
> > within the
> > > ECU - he _thinks_ it _might_ be due to aftermarket coil systems.=20
> > > Again - just his theory.  That's why I'm curious about
> > people's direct
> > > experience with this particular coil setup (034) - as I
> > have one I plan to use...
> > >
> > > So far people here seem to have had good experiences....
> > >
> > > So to reiterate:
> > >
> > > Facts:
> > > There have been ignition chip failures in some AAN ECUs
> > >
> > > Theory:
> > > Might be due to aftermarket ignition (coils) - didn't say
> > what kind -
> > > don't know if he even knows...
> > >
> > > Brandon
> > > '84 urquattro 20Vt
> > > '01 S4
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Manuel Sanchez [mailto:manuelsanchez at starpower.net]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:26 AM
> > > To: s-car-list at audifans.com
> > > Cc: brogers at terrix.com
> > > Subject: [s-cars] 034 HO Coil w/ AAN ECU?
> > >
> > >
> > > Brandon,
> > >
> > > I've had the 034 HO coils on my RS2'd car for a couple of
> > years now as well.
> > >
> > > I had some initial "teething" problems that in the end
> > turned out to
> > > be a bad ignition wire (it had a knick in it). Once that
> was chased
> > > down it has been trouble free (knocks on wood).
> > >
> > > My OE setup failed about 15,000 miles ago, so I obviously can't=20
> > > compare the longevity question with regard to the OE vs
> 034 systems.
> > >
> > > I must admit however that in the dark days on trying to
> chase down
> > > what the problem was with the new system I told myself that
> > I should
> > > have just bought the more expensive OE Coils and OE POS's,
> > after all,
> > > they lasted 100,000 miles.
> > >
> > > Having said that. the 034 HO system is very simple to
> > install, and the
> > > new ignition wire boots are of a different length that
> > allows you to
> > > place the coil pack cover overtop them spark plug wells so
> > you can keep the crud out.
> > >
> > >
> > > I am curious though about these ECU chip failures you write
> > about. Can
> > > you expand a bit more on what the theory or evidence has
> been? What
> > > aftermarket systems have "caused" or been thought to
> cause the Chip
> > > failures? Why does this person surmise that the coils have
> > caused an ECU problem.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Manny
> > >
> > > 95.5 ur S6 Avant (mostly RS2'd)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Dec 1, 2009, at 10:04 PM,
> s-car-list-request at audifans.com wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > >
> > > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 14:53:55 -0700
> > >
> > > From: "Brandon Rogers" <brogers at terrix.com>
> > >
> > > Subject: [s-cars] 034 HO Coil w/ AAN ECU?
> > >
> > > To: <s-car-list at audifans.com>
> > >
> > > Message-ID: <636621FF56584C19A95437D476CAA475 at BCROGERS>
> > >
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Guys-
> > >
> > > Curious what people know about using the 034 HO Coils
> with the AAN
> > > ECU.  Are
> > >
> > > many guys here using the 034 HO Coils?  (Or mostly 1.8T
> > coils (I don't
> > > want
> > >
> > > to do the 1.8T coils)).  Do you guys know of people having
> > any issues?
> > >
> > > Reason I ask is because I know somebody who is seeing a
> > fair number is
> > >
> > > ignition chip failures within the AAN ECUs and he thinks
> > they MIGHT be
> > >
> > > related to aftermarket ignition (coils).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Any BTDT?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Brandon
> > >
> > > '84 ur-quattro 20Vt - going COP
> > >
> > > '01 S4
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > S-CAR-List mailing list=20
> > > http://audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
> > > http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > S-CAR-List mailing list=20
> > http://audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
> > http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>
>
>