No subject

e BMW from experience is lacking.  That's ok, but reverting to mag article=
s tends to sound more like what I remember reading, not what I remember dr=
iving.  With regard to towing, I define that as towing my tandem axle car=
 trailer, and have done so thru the catskills and thru the Rockies.  *You*=
 define towing as something different, which is not the market either the=
 X5 or my LC is after.  EITHER of which, can easily tow a track car to the=
 track, in fine style, and then be quite 'usable' in being part of the dri=
ven fleet the other 350days a year.

You are trying too hard Taka.  I'm happy to be your so-ascribed village id=
iot, as I share stories and great rides, and choose to write creatively ab=
out those experiences on many forums.  Give it a try, and post up a honest=
 comparo, not summary opinion or regurgitated mag summaries.  And, any tim=
e you would like to really compare awd, sign up for Steamboat.  Everyone=
 has an opinion, I get lost easily in them.  Tell me a story, and contrast=
 and compare rides, that's my personal preference.  But I've been know to=
 be simple.

Cheers=20

S 'stoopid' J




-----Original Message-----
From: Taka Mizutani <t44tqtro at gmail.com>
To: qshipq at aol.com
Cc: theringmeister at triad.rr.com; jc at j2c3.com; s-car-list at audifans.com
Sent: Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:30 am
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Truth vs. Joy


Now Scott, you just made yourself look stupid.

Car and Driver's results? Corvette Z51 3:04, BMW M3 3:06- maybe not "circl=
es," but the BMW loses to a 5-year old car with less horsepower because th=
e Corvette weighs a good 400 lbs. less. The Grand Sport runs circles aroun=
d the M3- 2:59 is way faster.

I have driven them and compared them myself, thank you.

I'll take any Porsche over the comparable BMW- I've driven them and I pref=
er the Boxster or Cayman to anything in that range from BMW, same with the=
 Cayenne and same with the 911. The only Porsches I haven't driven are the=
 Panamera and the Carrera GT.

You're killing me- the STi and Evo are "kid cars, single purpose," yet you=
 say that you don't hold any assumptions or preconceptions about the cars=
 beforehand? Both of those cars drive better than the BMW for less money,=
 how is that a bad thing? Or are you then changing the target and saying=
 that the BMW is better because it's more luxurious, feels more solid and=
 doesn't look like a teenager's wet dream?

Just leave it that we don't agree at all.

You're not towing a double car trailer or even an enclosed 28' single car=
 trailer with an X5 or your landcruiser- try going through truck inspectio=
n with that one and see what happens- penalties for exceeding max weight=
 are steep. Oh, and try doing it through the Poconos and the Catskills on=
 the way to WGI.

You haven't even addressed the fuel pump and injector issues that the N54=
 engines have, although to be fair the GTI's engine has the same issues.

As for driving experience without looking at numbers, a classic 911 or my=
 Miata or a bunch of other cars drive a lot better than any of the current=
 roundup of 1, 3, 5 or whatever series BMW. The STi and the Evo are the cl=
osest to that in modern cars- they have tons of feedback, while the curren=
t Audi and BMW models filter everything heavily.

And the A5/S5 pair look far better than anything BMW has put out in the cu=
rrent lineup. Same thing with the B7 and B8 A4/S4 and as well with the D3=
 and D4 A8/S8.

Taka






On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 6:43 PM,  <qshipq at aol.com> wrote:

 Taka
I've said it many times before, you need to *drive* cars, and objective co=
mpare them yourself.  C&D did the 'Lightning Lap' article just last month.=
  The corvette won't run circles around the M3... Or, based strictly on th=
e times in class using your argument, the M3 will 'run circles' around the=
 S4.  Good reads, but I enjoy comparing rides and drives of many cars, and=
 learned long ago, that's not any offense to what's in my driveway. Apples=
 to Apples: The RS4 feels heavy, and front heavy driven hard.  The M3 feel=
s heavy, and *solid* driven hard.  The 'quattro' advantage wanes quickly.=
  Again, it's how you wear your weight.

Me, I prefer my landcruiser with TRD supercharger for towing, but the x5=
 sport will tow a the boat to the lake in good style, with form, and good=
 brakes.  STi and Evo?  Kid cars, one purpose, and that singular purpose=
 eclipses so many basics, they become chores.  I enjoy a good romp with th=
e Evo, but even Pizzo sold his monsta.  The best part of that romp?  Knowi=
ng I had fun, AND I can give the keys back.  Best ride to set your eyes on=
 fire when wearing your hat backwards?  Take a romp in a 135i with the Din=
an chip package and warrantee. =20

The BMW v Audi is about the evolution of Grand Touring Automobiles.  Speci=
fically, how to get the least compromises from a performance machine.  To=
 that end, the battle is full swing, and I claim De Lorenzo is still 180=
 out of whack.  I enjoy good car comparos with those that can compare them=
 objectively with btdt.  Class to class, BMW hits the marque very hard, in=
 objective and subjective comparos, IMO.  I thoroughly enjoyed my ride in=
 a Camaro SS too, but the comparison to the BMW/Audis can only be a track=
 time.  Which then brings back my point, the evolution of the Grand Tourin=
g Automobile has come a long way.  And part of that battle of the rings vs=
 roundel, is how BMW chips away constantly at the 'quattro' advantage.  50=
/50 weight distribution goes a long way towards that end.  Add in identica=
l awd systems, Audi is at the disadvantage now.

And I'm quite happy that I own more than one of the classic GT's in my col=
lection of urq's.  To me, like driving the 911S, it's always a plus when=
 the enjoyment of the ride, stands the test of time. =20

SJ


-----Original Message-----
From: Taka Mizutani <t44tqtro at gmail.com>
To: qshipq at aol.com

Cc: theringmeister at triad.rr.com; jc at j2c3.com; s-car-list at audifans.com
Sent: Fri, Mar 19, 2010 5:01 pm
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Truth vs. Joy



I would rather buy a Porsche than a performance BMW model. If we stick to=
 awd models, I still prefer the Audi quattro system over any other system=
 I've driven.  My Corvette will run circles around the BMW's you mentioned=
 and a gt-3 will do even better.
As a performance luxury car, IMO the fugly cayenne does better and the Aud=
i's are much nicer to sit in, dealer experience notwithstanding.=20
I have other cars, so I don't need one car to do it all. I still think an=
 s5 or s4 is a much nicer daily driver than a comparable BMW.=20
I'd also choose a diesel pickup or a suburban as a tow vehicle unless your=
e towing bikes or something light.=20
If you're going to excuse the ugliness of current BMW's then an sti or evo=
lution is a much better performance car.
I guess we can agree to disagree, because I don't see any BMW other than=
 the x5m or the 535xi touring manual that I would ever buy.

=20



=20