[s-cars] S Car values

[Calvin Craig]

Give me one good reason why we should destroy anything on the car?  So let
me get this straight, we want to recycle paper and aluminum cans, which
costs energy to make into new papers and new cans, but something that
doesn't cost any energy to make into something useful, like a completely
perfectly fine running engine that could be used to replace one that was
worn out, we want to destroy?  HUH?  Sorry, that doesn't follow at all.  Why
must the car be crushed or shredded?  When there is this much irrational
thought going on surrounding something it usually has politics behind it, I
work too closely with the US government on a daily basis to not recognize
this one :)

So the TDI is an interesting example.  How many years will it take for the
car to depreciate $3000 (the difference between what we are paying you for
your car (I say we as a taxpayer) and what you could get on the open market?
I honestly don't know in the case of a TDI, because I have never researched
that particular car, but my wager is less than a couple of years.  So why
not buy a 2 year old car?  If it's not still reliable at that point who the
hell wants it anyway?

The idea that it stimulates car sales is kind of odd.  People consume cars
at a given rate.  If we have a glut of people buying cars this year because
of the stimulus what do you think will happen next year?    This is just
like the "Nobody buy gas on Tuesday so we can show the oil companies who's
in charge" idea.  When twice the number of people show up on Wedenesday I am
sure they learned their lesson :)

Let's use our $4,500 per car to create something that will have a longer
lasting benefit.  Let's look at some previous examples.  How about Hoover
Dam, built during the last great stimulus era.  At least it is still around
after 70 years and still doing a good thing for the country.  That's an
investment!  I just expect tax dollars to do more for the common good than
helping to subsidize a poorly managed industry.  Think of all the car
companies that went bankrupt during the Great Depression.  It's healthy,
it's OK.  Businesses failing is just as important as businesses succeeding,
it helps tell us what works and what doesn't.  Not everybody gets a trophy!
This country has gone soft since the late 60's and it's really aggravating.
What's funny about that is that I wasn't even born until 1972 but I can
certainly do the comparison.

Wow, waaay off topic.  Sorry, I don't usually do this, but I just can't
stand illogical crap.

--Calvin


 -----Original Message-----
From: jvantol at gmail.com [mailto:jvantol at gmail.com]On Behalf Of Joshua Van
Tol
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:50 AM
To: djdawson2 at aol.com
Cc: dkase at dorma-usa.com; theringmeister at triad.rr.com;
jerryscott at wispertel.net; s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com;
calvinlc at earthlink.net; s-car-list at audifans.com
Subject: Re: [s-cars] S Car values


  As a data point here I've got a 1987 5kcstq that I'm trading for $4500 off
of a new Jetta TDI. That car hasn't been worth that much in at least 10
years, it's a very good deal for certain people. My vw dealer, and a couple
others I've talked to say that it's not lower income folks taking advantage
of this. Rather it's middle income thrifty types who have a second or third
car as a spare.

  As a means of stimulating the economy, it's pretty direct.

  BTW, much of that "prius isn't green" stuff is made up lies. At one point
the "fact" that a prius was more environmentally costly than a hummer was
out there. It just isn't true. Now a Jetta TDI vs a prius? I'd wager the
Jetta wins, and is a much nicer car to drive to boot. But there's a place
for the prius. If I were doing stop and go city driving I'd seriously
consider it, as the 51 mpg city is very hard to beat, but I have a 90%
highway 60 mile (total) commute each day, and the TDI will do very well on
that, plus it's a darn nice car.

  As for economics, I'm sure the Obama team has heard of the Laffer curve,
but if I'm not mistaken, the current consensus on that idea is that it's a
gross simplification. I'm not a fan of every thing Obama has done, or will
likely do, but this isn't a particularly terrible piece of legislation. It
stimulates the sales of new cars, and gets some unsafe and fuel inefficient
cars off the road. The cars are not completely destroyed, the salvage yards
are allowed to re-sell some parts of the car, just not the "long block", and
the car must ultimately be crushed or shredded.

  Anyone who really wants to know the details of the program should go to
www.cars.gov. The complete rules are posted there, in more detail than
you'll care to read, including the exact procedure for destroying the
engine, the paperwork required to prevent fraud, the amount of funds allowed
to be used for administrative purposes ($50m out of $1b), etc.




  On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:09 PM, <djdawson2 at aol.com> wrote:


     You guys are all making too much sense.

    Give a guy $4500 towards buying a new car that the buyer can't afford.?
Good stuff.? Makes no sense.

    "Green?"? Yeah, I see that everyday in my work too.? "Green" fleets, and
the promotion of hybrid vehicles.? The Prius is the biggest joke I've ever
seen.? It is probably the most non-green thing on the road.? But the
percetion of green is all that matters to our politicians.? Why bother to go
out and do a study on how devastating the creation and disposal of a hybrid
is to our environment?? All I care about is emissions and fuel mileage.

    I do wonder when our government will start making sense.? It seems to
have taken a major turn for the worse as of late.

    Economics... I wonder if Obama has ever heard of the Laffer Curve?