[s-cars] S Car values

[Cody Forbes]

This whole thing sounds like the old car version of Farenheit 451 to  
me. I'm immagining telling my son about when auto recyclers used to  
save cars instead of destroy them...

-Cody (mobile)

On Jul 29, 2009, at 2:14 AM, "Calvin Craig" <calvinlc at earthlink.net>  
wrote:

> Give me one good reason why we should destroy anything on the car?   
> So let
> me get this straight, we want to recycle paper and aluminum cans,  
> which
> costs energy to make into new papers and new cans, but something that
> doesn't cost any energy to make into something useful, like a  
> completely
> perfectly fine running engine that could be used to replace one that  
> was
> worn out, we want to destroy?  HUH? Sorry, that doesn't follow at  
> all.  Why
> must the car be crushed or shredded?  When there is this much  
> irrational
> thought going on surrounding something it usually has politics  
> behind it, I
> work too closely with the US government on a daily basis to not  
> recognize
> this one :)
>
> So the TDI is an interesting example.  How many years will it take  
> for the
> car to depreciate $3000 (the difference between what we are paying  
> you for
> your car (I say we as a taxpayer) and what you could get on the open  
> market?
> I honestly don't know in the case of a TDI, because I have never  
> researched
> that particular car, but my wager is less than a couple of years.   
> So why
> not buy a 2 year old car?  If it's not still reliable at that point  
> who the
> hell wants it anyway?
>
> The idea that it stimulates car sales is kind of odd.  People  
> consume cars
> at a given rate.  If we have a glut of people buying cars this year  
> because
> of the stimulus what do you think will happen next year?    This is  
> just
> like the "Nobody buy gas on Tuesday so we can show the oil companies  
> who's
> in charge" idea.  When twice the number of people show up on  
> Wedenesday I am
> sure they learned their lesson :)
>
> Let's use our $4,500 per car to create something that will have a  
> longer
> lasting benefit.  Let's look at some previous examples.  How about  
> Hoover
> Dam, built during the last great stimulus era.  At least it is still  
> around
> after 70 years and still doing a good thing for the country.  That's  
> an
> investment!  I just expect tax dollars to do more for the common  
> good than
> helping to subsidize a poorly managed industry.  Think of all the car
> companies that went bankrupt during the Great Depression.  It's  
> healthy,
> it's OK.  Businesses failing is just as important as businesses  
> succeeding,
> it helps tell us what works and what doesn't.  Not everybody gets a  
> trophy!
> This country has gone soft since the late 60's and it's really  
> aggravating.
> What's funny about that is that I wasn't even born until 1972 but I  
> can
> certainly do the comparison.
>
> Wow, waaay off topic.  Sorry, I don't usually do this, but I just  
> can't
> stand illogical crap.
>
> --Calvin
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jvantol at gmail.com [mailto:jvantol at gmail.com]On Behalf Of  
> Joshua Van
> Tol
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:50 AM
> To: djdawson2 at aol.com
> Cc: dkase at dorma-usa.com; theringmeister at triad.rr.com;
> jerryscott at wispertel.net; s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com;
> calvinlc at earthlink.net; s-car-list at audifans.com
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] S Car values
>
>
>  As a data point here I've got a 1987 5kcstq that I'm trading for  
> $4500 off
> of a new Jetta TDI. That car hasn't been worth that much in at least  
> 10
> years, it's a very good deal for certain people. My vw dealer, and a  
> couple
> others I've talked to say that it's not lower income folks taking  
> advantage
> of this. Rather it's middle income thrifty types who have a second  
> or third
> car as a spare.
>
>  As a means of stimulating the economy, it's pretty direct.
>
>  BTW, much of that "prius isn't green" stuff is made up lies. At one  
> point
> the "fact" that a prius was more environmentally costly than a  
> hummer was
> out there. It just isn't true. Now a Jetta TDI vs a prius? I'd wager  
> the
> Jetta wins, and is a much nicer car to drive to boot. But there's a  
> place
> for the prius. If I were doing stop and go city driving I'd seriously
> consider it, as the 51 mpg city is very hard to beat, but I have a 90%
> highway 60 mile (total) commute each day, and the TDI will do very  
> well on
> that, plus it's a darn nice car.
>
>  As for economics, I'm sure the Obama team has heard of the Laffer  
> curve,
> but if I'm not mistaken, the current consensus on that idea is that  
> it's a
> gross simplification. I'm not a fan of every thing Obama has done,  
> or will
> likely do, but this isn't a particularly terrible piece of  
> legislation. It
> stimulates the sales of new cars, and gets some unsafe and fuel  
> inefficient
> cars off the road. The cars are not completely destroyed, the  
> salvage yards
> are allowed to re-sell some parts of the car, just not the "long  
> block", and
> the car must ultimately be crushed or shredded.
>
>  Anyone who really wants to know the details of the program should  
> go to
> www.cars.gov. The complete rules are posted there, in more detail than
> you'll care to read, including the exact procedure for destroying the
> engine, the paperwork required to prevent fraud, the amount of funds  
> allowed
> to be used for administrative purposes ($50m out of $1b), etc.
>
>
>
>
>  On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:09 PM, <djdawson2 at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>     You guys are all making too much sense.
>
>    Give a guy $4500 towards buying a new car that the buyer can't  
> afford.?
> Good stuff.? Makes no sense.
>
>    "Green?"? Yeah, I see that everyday in my work too.? "Green"  
> fleets, and
> the promotion of hybrid vehicles.? The Prius is the biggest joke  
> I've ever
> seen.? It is probably the most non-green thing on the road.? But the
> percetion of green is all that matters to our politicians.? Why  
> bother to go
> out and do a study on how devastating the creation and disposal of a  
> hybrid
> is to our environment?? All I care about is emissions and fuel  
> mileage.
>
>    I do wonder when our government will start making sense.? It  
> seems to
> have taken a major turn for the worse as of late.
>
>    Economics... I wonder if Obama has ever heard of the Laffer Curve?
>
>
>
>
>
>
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