[s-cars] Jorgen Racks and audi rack history

[smarinello at entouch.net]

I queried the guys at Jorgen about the issue before I ordered my rack.  They said 
that they recognized a problem existed and had the ZF engineers come to them to 
assess the issue.  The problem was determined to be wear on the shaft caused by 
unfiltered particulates. It was the recommendation of the ZF guys and the Jorgen 
engineer investigating the problem that an improved (diamond) honing of the shaft 
should eliminate the problem, along with recommending better filtration due to 
maintenance recommendations not being rigorously followed.  I believe they had seen 
Zero failures since instituting the diamond honing and supplemental filter. 

Steve

On Thu Jul 22 11:06 , Joshua Van Tol  sent:

>Well, it's good to know that the S-car racks have an improved design. I
>agree with you on the particulate problem. My experience was that when I
>originally installed a rebuilt Jorgen rack, I flushed the system thoroughly,
>cleaned out the strainer, cleaned the tank, etc. And it failed 18 months or
>so later. This cycle repeated several times until Jorgen changed something
>in their process. I wound up talking to someone at Jorgen familiar with the
>process, and he said that they'd started honing the shafts with a diamond
>hone, and that had apparently fixed the problem. This latest rack is about 4
>years old and shows no signs of leaking. I agree with you too that typically
>the boot doesn't fail first, but rather fails as a result of exposure to
>fluid. That's what happened with my first couple of Jorgen racks.
>
>I have no doubt that Jorgen is the very best of the re-built suppliers, with
>the possible exception of ZF itself, and the problem they were having with
>5k racks were likely not of their making. I'd just be leery of replacing a
>good rack as preventive maintenance. But it sounds like that's not the case
>here.
>
>
>
>On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 9:51 AM, qshipq at aol.com> wrote:
>
>>  JvT et al., I'll add my .02, having replaced a a few dozen steering racks
>> over the years.  I use Jorgen exclusively, and have not returned any under
>> warrantee claim.  Let's be clear as to the difference between the 5k racks
>> of the 80's and the newer racks of the 90's (including servo racks = ALL).
>> The failure of the 5k racks was due to the use of steel shaft components
>> within the rack itself.  As such, the success of rebuilds is hampered by a
>> less than stellar design.  Add to that, a 5k rack rebuild is probably in
>> it's third or fourth generation of turnover, it only compounds the
>> likelyhood of warrantee claim  Add in the Pentosin 7.11 was a non synthetic
>> fluid, the turbo cars were very prone to fluid breakdown.  The swap to 11S
>> came with the addition of the SS rack assembly.As of 1991 v8, Audi switched
>> to SS shaft components within the rack, which not only increased the service
>> life of the rack itself, but made honing rebuilds have a higher rate of
>> success.
>>
>> To the 'replace the boot', that's usually a used bandaid on the problem.
>> Most racks fail from particulate in the fluid (lack of PS flushes), which
>> then causes the steering shaft seal to fail.  When it fails, the fluid leaks
>> into the boot, which then will degrade the rubber bellows, which by then,
>> the problem will not be 'fixed' by putting a boot on.
>>
>> Jorgen sells all rebuilds with a filter to help remove the particulate from
>> the PS fluid.  A good PM move, especially since very few properly service
>> the PS fluid regularly.  M. Shultz, that filter goes into the return line
>> (low pressure) to the tank.  I usually just add a section of hydraulic hose
>> to the stock return line to the tank.
>>
>> Basing SS rack rebuilds on a non-SS 5k rack experiences, is not relevant to
>> the S car list, nor does it give Jorgen a fair shake.  This was a known Audi
>> issue long before Jorgen even started rebuilding the 5k racks.  The *answer*
>> to the 5k rack problem, is to grab a rack from a later 100/A6/V8.
>>
>> HTH and my .02
>>
>> Scott J
>> QSHIPQ Performance
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mike Fitton rfitton at vt.edu>
>> To: Joshua van Tol jvantol at gmail.com>
>> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com List s-car-list at audifans.com>
>> Sent: Thu, Jul 22, 2010 9:11 am
>> Subject: Re: [s-cars] it won't stop!
>>
>>  Oh no, it's leaking.  Started getting really bad about a month ago.
>>
>>
>> I've kept it topped off, not trying to seize the pump while I'm at it.
>>
>>
>> But was trying to wait to take it out of service for that.  And then the
>>
>>
>> TO bearing (or something) said no and I'll be doing it anyway.  I was
>>
>>
>> hoping it would be kind of like replacing a few seals and o-rings and
>>
>>
>> I'd be good.  This is actually my first VW rack failure in over ten
>>
>>
>> years and seven examples, so I guess I was pushing the odds.  What is
>>
>>
>> the boot you speak of?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Cheers!
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/21/2010 10:22 PM, Joshua van Tol wrote:
>>
>>
>> > If the rack's dry, don't mess with it.
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>> > The re-mans from Jorgen, while they're better than they used to be
>>
>>
>> > (they have figured out the secret sauce to make them work, apparently
>>
>>
>> > a diamond honing procedure on the hydraulic cylinder shaft) are not as
>>
>>
>> > good as the original ZF units. I know from first hand experience,
>>
>>
>> > having redeemed the warranty on a jorgen rack 3 times on my old 5000.
>>
>>
>> > This last one seems to be holding out. If you feel the need to do
>>
>>
>> > something, replace the boot and leave it at that.
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>>
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