[s-cars] Jorgen Racks and audi rack history

Wylie Bean theringmeister at triad.rr.com
Tue Jul 27 08:28:42 PDT 2010 

I think Mance's gyrations on this on the QW forums have proven the benefits. I think most of it is on the 80/90/cab section though... 
Wylie Bean
TheRingmeister at triad.rr.com
90 cq
91 90q20v
92 UrS4
08 Q7 3.6
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Schulz <pcschulz at comcast.net>
Sender: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:56:28 
To: <smarinello at entouch.net>
Cc: Joshua Van Tol<jvantol at gmail.com>; <s-car-list at audifans.com>
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Jorgen Racks and audi rack history

So enquiring minds want to know whether in addition to flushing the $$ pentosin whether there is benefit for adding an inline particulate filter to our current/existing racks?
any BTDTs?


-Peter

On Jul 22, 2010, at 11:49 AM, <smarinello at entouch.net> <smarinello at entouch.net> wrote:

> I queried the guys at Jorgen about the issue before I ordered my rack.  They said 
> that they recognized a problem existed and had the ZF engineers come to them to 
> assess the issue.  The problem was determined to be wear on the shaft caused by 
> unfiltered particulates. It was the recommendation of the ZF guys and the Jorgen 
> engineer investigating the problem that an improved (diamond) honing of the shaft 
> should eliminate the problem, along with recommending better filtration due to 
> maintenance recommendations not being rigorously followed.  I believe they had seen 
> Zero failures since instituting the diamond honing and supplemental filter. 
> 
> Steve
> 
> On Thu Jul 22 11:06 , Joshua Van Tol  sent:
> 
>> Well, it's good to know that the S-car racks have an improved design. I
>> agree with you on the particulate problem. My experience was that when I
>> originally installed a rebuilt Jorgen rack, I flushed the system thoroughly,
>> cleaned out the strainer, cleaned the tank, etc. And it failed 18 months or
>> so later. This cycle repeated several times until Jorgen changed something
>> in their process. I wound up talking to someone at Jorgen familiar with the
>> process, and he said that they'd started honing the shafts with a diamond
>> hone, and that had apparently fixed the problem. This latest rack is about 4
>> years old and shows no signs of leaking. I agree with you too that typically
>> the boot doesn't fail first, but rather fails as a result of exposure to
>> fluid. That's what happened with my first couple of Jorgen racks.
>> 
>> I have no doubt that Jorgen is the very best of the re-built suppliers, with
>> the possible exception of ZF itself, and the problem they were having with
>> 5k racks were likely not of their making. I'd just be leery of replacing a
>> good rack as preventive maintenance. But it sounds like that's not the case
>> here.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 9:51 AM, qshipq at aol.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> JvT et al., I'll add my .02, having replaced a a few dozen steering racks
>>> over the years.  I use Jorgen exclusively, and have not returned any under
>>> warrantee claim.  Let's be clear as to the difference between the 5k racks
>>> of the 80's and the newer racks of the 90's (including servo racks = ALL).
>>> The failure of the 5k racks was due to the use of steel shaft components
>>> within the rack itself.  As such, the success of rebuilds is hampered by a
>>> less than stellar design.  Add to that, a 5k rack rebuild is probably in
>>> it's third or fourth generation of turnover, it only compounds the
>>> likelyhood of warrantee claim  Add in the Pentosin 7.11 was a non synthetic
>>> fluid, the turbo cars were very prone to fluid breakdown.  The swap to 11S
>>> came with the addition of the SS rack assembly.As of 1991 v8, Audi switched
>>> to SS shaft components within the rack, which not only increased the service
>>> life of the rack itself, but made honing rebuilds have a higher rate of
>>> success.
>>> 
>>> To the 'replace the boot', that's usually a used bandaid on the problem.
>>> Most racks fail from particulate in the fluid (lack of PS flushes), which
>>> then causes the steering shaft seal to fail.  When it fails, the fluid leaks
>>> into the boot, which then will degrade the rubber bellows, which by then,
>>> the problem will not be 'fixed' by putting a boot on.
>>> 
>>> Jorgen sells all rebuilds with a filter to help remove the particulate from
>>> the PS fluid.  A good PM move, especially since very few properly service
>>> the PS fluid regularly.  M. Shultz, that filter goes into the return line
>>> (low pressure) to the tank.  I usually just add a section of hydraulic hose
>>> to the stock return line to the tank.
>>> 
>>> Basing SS rack rebuilds on a non-SS 5k rack experiences, is not relevant to
>>> the S car list, nor does it give Jorgen a fair shake.  This was a known Audi
>>> issue long before Jorgen even started rebuilding the 5k racks.  The *answer*
>>> to the 5k rack problem, is to grab a rack from a later 100/A6/V8.
>>> 
>>> HTH and my .02
>>> 
>>> Scott J
>>> QSHIPQ Performance
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Mike Fitton rfitton at vt.edu>
>>> To: Joshua van Tol jvantol at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com List s-car-list at audifans.com>
>>> Sent: Thu, Jul 22, 2010 9:11 am
>>> Subject: Re: [s-cars] it won't stop!
>>> 
>>> Oh no, it's leaking.  Started getting really bad about a month ago.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I've kept it topped off, not trying to seize the pump while I'm at it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> But was trying to wait to take it out of service for that.  And then the
>>> 
>>> 
>>> TO bearing (or something) said no and I'll be doing it anyway.  I was
>>> 
>>> 
>>> hoping it would be kind of like replacing a few seals and o-rings and
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'd be good.  This is actually my first VW rack failure in over ten
>>> 
>>> 
>>> years and seven examples, so I guess I was pushing the odds.  What is
>>> 
>>> 
>>> the boot you speak of?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Cheers!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 7/21/2010 10:22 PM, Joshua van Tol wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> If the rack's dry, don't mess with it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> The re-mans from Jorgen, while they're better than they used to be
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> (they have figured out the secret sauce to make them work, apparently
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> a diamond honing procedure on the hydraulic cylinder shaft) are not as
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> good as the original ZF units. I know from first hand experience,
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> having redeemed the warranty on a jorgen rack 3 times on my old 5000.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> This last one seems to be holding out. If you feel the need to do
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> something, replace the boot and leave it at that.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> S-CAR-List mailing list
>> http://audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
>> http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> S-CAR-List mailing list
> http://audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
> http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information



-Peter Schulz
Chelmsford Ma, USA
http://www.naaclub.org/

1995.5 S6 Avant Emerald/Ecru
1995.5 S6 Avant Silver/Platinum
1991 90Q 20v Q Red
1991 90Q 20v Indigo
1991 CQ silver  (eS2 recipient) 



_______________________________________________
S-CAR-List mailing list
http://audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information

More information about the S-CAR-List mailing list