[s-cars] Vendoring vs Vectoring

Thu Jun 17 12:22:10 PDT 2010

I have no skin in this game, but Dave's comment about the skill level of the
man on the street reminded me of someone I met many moons ago.

At the time, I worked in a high end bicycle shop as a mechanic, and we were
interviewing applicants for a new mechanic for overflow business during the
summer.

We asked all of them to bring their bike in- usually that was enough to
disqualify them. However, one guy had a decent looking and reasonably well
tuned bike, and might have had a chance at the job, until he suddenly
blurted "And I have all my own tools!". We asked him to bring them in and
show them to us. The total contents of the tool box was:

2 screw drivers (slot and Phillips)
1 adjustable wrench
3 sets of vice grips, assorted sizes
A large ball peen hammer.

We managed to keep from falling over laughing until he was out the door.
Barely. He didn't get the job. ;-)

On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 2:54 PM, <djdawson2 at aol.com> wrote:

>
>  Agreed... 110%.
>
> In my opinion, 034 does a nice job trying to provide good products to what
> could easily be described as a small marketplace.  In this case, 034 is
> simply "passing through" another company's product...  a BW turbo.
>
>
> To expect that company to warrant something beyond what you could/should
> expect from the manufacturer is silly... even absurd.
>
> In the real world (this is the field in which I work), there are
> circumstances where the manufacturer will warrant a product from the
> "installed date" as opposed to the purchase date.  A great deal of
> serialized documentation is required to prove what happened when, if a
> warranty claim is ever to be honored by the OEM.  However, I have never seen
> that be the case for turbochargers.  I used to be in a position where I was
> purchasing dozens of turbos monthly for heavy commercial applications
> (Detroits, Cats, Cummins, etc...), and a 90 day warranty was typical.  Even
> then, if a failure did occur it was rare that the claim would be honored.
>  Why?  They test, spin, and balance these turbos at over 100k rpm before
> they go into the box.  If they fail after you install them, it is almost
> always due to lack of lubrication on initial start-up.  I have seen only 2
> occasions in my life where the rotating assembly has come apart (wheel off
> the shaft)... it is 99% of the time a bearing failure.
>
> Bottom line... IMO, if one of your wheels didn't come off the shaft, the
> failure was your fault at installation.
>
> A final editorial opinion... there are a lot of people who jump into
> working on cars with little knowledge of what they are doing.  It isn't
> really any different than the DIY home improvement disasters that you see on
> TV.  There really isn't anything wrong with this... until something goes
> sideways.  In today's world, everyone's first reaction to a problem is to
> look around for someone to blame (vectoring?).
>
> Now, put yourself  ;in Javad's place.  In spite of the foolishness of
> trying to get warranty on a turbo after 3 years, Javad has absolutely NO way
> of determining who installed that turbo or that adjustable timing gear he
> mentioned, or their capabilities.  They could be pros, or their toolbox
> could only contain a crowbar, a hammer, and a set of vice grips... no way
> for him to know these things.  To accept unreasonable responsibility for
> what happens with a product once in the hands of the end user is an
> impossible task... and 034 would soon be out of business... and everyone
> loses.
>
> In my experience, you will not see those recognized as qualified gearheads
> lodging such complaints.  This is because they don't experience these sorts
> of failures... nor will they try and hold a vendor accountable for a part
> manufactured by someone else (1.8t coils come to mind).
>
> Again... these are just my opinions.  The good news is that I doubt these
> sorts of things do little damage to folks like Javad in the long run.  The
> windbags that complain about something ridiculous are typically recognized
> as such.  The folks that know what they are doing (and yes, I will include
> myself in this list of people), will still tell you that going to 034 for
> your needs is a very good choice.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: qshipq at aol.com
> To: s-car-list at audifans.com
> Cc: JShadzi at aol.com
> Sent: Thu, Jun 17, 2010 11:47 am
> Subject: [s-cars] Vendoring vs Vectoring
>
>
>
>
> I skipped the topic "Life Lesson" until I took the time to read both of
> Javad's
>
> responses.  Both well written by Javad, and frankly, give too much
> information
>
> to those that have no right to it.  Backing up to the original poster and
> his
>
> complaint, a turbo sitting 3 years before install, should be pre-lubed and
> spun
>
> (minimally) before install, and certainly deserves no after-sale service
>
> expectation 3 years later.  Borg Warner tests their turbos before they
> leave the
>
> factory, and I'd bet a post-mortum teardown of that claimed 'defective
> turbo'
>
> will reveal this isn't BW or 034 issue/problem, and that turbo was not
> defective
>
> at the time of sale.
>
>
>
> This could be a 'life lesson', but to the OP.  Regardless if 034 made 1000
>
> profit on the product, the service expectation is the unreasonable part of
> the
>
> story.  Ironically, at vendor admitted 200 dollar 'profit', that service
>
> expectation is no less.  That might be Javad's life lesson, one I learned
> many
>
> years ago.  Price does not equal value.
>
>
>
> Second life lesson, be selfish to your own situation.  Spamming a vendor
> over
>
> something this absurd, seems to reinforce the reason good vendors can lose
> their
>
> business over perceived price>value relationships.  IMO, Javad offered more
> than
>
> I would under the same circumstances.  3 years a turbo sits, then one wants
> to
>
> install it and expect to spin it at 120k rpm?  My advice as a turbo-guy,
> take
>
> the offer made to you, and say thank you.  Expecting more means you have an
>
> unrealistic expectations of vendors, don't know how a turbo works, and what
> is
>
> good business resolution.
>
>
>
> To the fuel of the fire by others...  Wrong forum, see lesson 2.  I've
> resolved
>
> hundreds of 'customer complaints' in my former life as a National Sales
> Manager,
>
> as well as, more recently in the Audi-service arena.  Coilpack complaints?
>  You
>
> have to be kidding, VW and Audi couldn't get them right from the factory,
>
> remember who started the problem vs attacking those attempting to address
> it.
>
>
>
> There are many vendors/Audi techs that lurk on these lists, and life lesson
> 3
>
> might argue, for good reason.  Robin, your post at best is incomplete - I
> call
>
> it just plain unfair and unjust.  One on one with 034, and/or if you insist
> on
>
> sharing, a very detailed post of the circumstances of the install would be
> a
>
> better first step.  A NIB turbo isn't "blown", and you don't even define
> what
>
> that is.  For any 'consideration' of your plight within the 3 month
> warranty
>
> period, Borg Warner requires documentation far beyond "I put it in my car
> and it
>
> 'was blown'"  What changes when a 3rd party vendor sold it to you, and you
> chose
>
> to wait 3 years for the install?  Where's the post or inquiry to
> 034/BW/s-car
>
> list:  "Need advice on installing 3 year old turbo".  That sir, very well
> might
>
> have saved you a lot of self-inflicted wounds.
>
>
>
> I'd advise against wielding axes at by-standers, whatever your intent, it
> only
>
> is fueled by the S-car blood-thirsty crowd buzzing over the carnage.  Me, I
> see
>
> only blood stains finding you, and a concerned Vendor trying hard to defend
>
> himself without any real cause to do so. Life lesson experiences are given
> to
>
> our children as part of parenting.  Causing carnage to 034 over
> frustration,
>
> just isn't enough information to pass a life-lesson on to anyone.
>
>
>
> IMO
>
>
>
> Scott J
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Robin Stoddard <rstoddard at shaw.ca>
>
> To: s-car-list at audifans.com <s-car-list at audifans.com>
>
> Sent: Tue, Jun 15, 2010 3:34 pm
>
> Subject: [s-cars] Blown turbo & Life lesson #3568921
>
>
>
>
>
> I bought a pair of new RS4 turbos from a tuner that specializes in
>
>
>
> Audi based mods three years ago for a race car build.  Only to find
>
>
>
> out (now that the car finally runs) that one of the new turbos is
>
>
>
> blown.  The company's response that sold them to me is "sucks to be
>
>
>
> you" because we (or anyone else) will not warrent our parts for that
>
>
>
> long.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So the lesson here is, TEST your f'n parts before you install them
>
>
>
> espescially when dealing with a certain Audi turner/parts company.
>
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