[urq] More of the car that wouldn't start

Thatcher Hubbard thatcher.hubbard at gmail.com
Fri Nov 5 14:07:28 EST 2004 

Per Brandon's suggestion, I'm going to try to figure out how to
pressurize the IM with the equipment I have, or can borrow.  With the
exception of a couple of hoses I've already replaced, all the other
hoses are the same that left Ingolstadt in May of 82, so they'll be
replaced one way or another.

I had put replacing the Michelin Man hose down as a preventetive
maintenance item on my list, after I'd gotten the car running again. 
I'm interested in the Aircraft Spruce solution that Bill offered up,
so if I wrap it in tape and it "fixes" the problem, I'll do that
immediately.

Patrick, yes, I replaced every seal that you come even near when I
took the head off it.  I put new injector inserts into the head, and
replaced the original black injector o-rings with the green ones.


On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 19:40:48 +0100, Patrick Carlier <p.carlier at pandora.be> wrote:
> Another way to test leaky intake parts is to have the engine running ,
> and then spray a flammable liquid on suspicious junctions .
> Motorstart spray is a good example , or a non lit propane torch .
> Use with caution offcourse , don't go spraying like an idiot .
> 
> If you hit or come near the intake leak , rpm will change .
> 
> You've pulled the head right ?
> How about the big o-rings that seal the injectors to the head .
> 
> Pat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Rogers" <brogers at terrix.com>
> To: "Thatcher Hubbard" <thatcher.hubbard at gmail.com>; "Buchholz, Steven"
> <steven.buchholz at kla-tencor.com>
> Cc: <urq at audifans.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 7:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [urq] More of the car that wouldn't start
> 
> > Yes you can tightly wrap the igloo to turbo hose with duct tape for
> > diagnostic purposes.  It may even last a while but I would get a new hose
> > asap - whether you choose factory or otherwise.  I know people have
> figured
> > out how to use modify metal tubes froma  5kt to work...
> >
> > This is why pressurizing the intake is, IMO, the best diagnostic tool for
> > the WX motors...Once you know the system is sealed you can focus on
> > components and DC...
> >
> > Brandon
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Thatcher Hubbard" <thatcher.hubbard at gmail.com>
> > To: "Buchholz, Steven" <steven.buchholz at kla-tencor.com>
> > Cc: <urq at audifans.com>
> > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 9:51 AM
> > Subject: Re: [urq] More of the car that wouldn't start
> >
> >
> > > You know, I hadn't even thought of that, despite the fact that I had
> > > examined that hose while I had it out of the car and noticed that a
> > > couple of the wire hoops had busted out of their fabric covering.  The
> > > info I'd seen on that hose failing was all "I was driving on the
> > > highway and suddenly", but I guess if it's a small tear it would be
> > > just like taking the oil cap off.
> > >
> > > As a troubleshooting technique, can I just wrap the thing in duct
> > > tape?  I know that it would not last, especially not at any kind of
> > > RPM, but just to see if I can get the car to idle.
> > >
> > > I am also going to check the duty cycle.  The car has not had much
> > > work done to it over the years, but what has been done was not
> > > necessarily by a great mechanic.  When I removed the head from the car
> > > and was (carefully) removing the EM bolts and studs, I found a couple
> > > of points where someone had started to drill the studs out and then
> > > thought the better of it.  The engine shop didn't think they'd be a
> > > problem, but it was something of an indicator for me of how well it
> > > had been maintained.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:28:46 -0800, Buchholz, Steven
> > > <steven.buchholz at kla-tencor.com> wrote:
> > > > ... one of the things you shouldn't worry at all about is the ignition
> > > > timing ... this is set very precisely based on the flywheel teeth and
> > > > the reference pin ... I suppose damaged flywheel might screw timing
> up,
> > > > but that would most likely affect high rev operation (IMO).  Any
> > > > adjustment of the distributor does not actually change the ignition
> > > > timing ...
> > > >
> > > > I agree that it is likely that there is unmetered air getting into the
> > > > intake tract ... and IMO one of the prime suspects is the same intake
> > > > hose we've been talking about on another thread.  The hose from the
> top
> > > > of the airflow sensor (igloo) to the turbo inlet is notorious for
> > > > leaking, and sometimes the breaks in the hose are not easily visible.
> > > > The hose is rather simple to remove and test to see if it is leaking.
> > > > Removing the vacuum line at the top of the igloo will cause the
> > > > possibility of unmetered air, but I doubt it would be enough to screw
> up
> > > > the idle.  You may want to plug it just to be sure ...
> > > >
> > > > One other thing to beware of is the OXS Freq Valve ... do you hear it
> > > > buzzing at all while the engine is running?  Do you hear the buzzing
> > > > start and stop while the engine is running?  If you have a duty cycle
> > > > meter, hook it up to the diagnostic plug in the loom near the firewall
> > > > on the passenger side and see what you are reading for duty cycle.  If
> > > > you close the WOT switch at idle the ECU will force the duty cycle to
> > > > 50%, which tends to speed the idle up a tad on my car ...
> > > >
> > > > Given you are just talking about idle the manifold pressure line to
> the
> > > > ECU is not likely to be contributing to your problem (IMO), but as
> > > > always ... you can never say for sure for something that is not
> > > > configured properly ...
> > > >
> > > > Bon chance!
> > > > Steve B
> > > > San Jose, CA (USA)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It will start now, as it would yesterday.  I checked the timing
> (that
> > > > > is, the position of the cam versus the crank) and I was indeed off a
> > > > > tooth, although when I restarted the car it ran even more roughly
> than
> > > > > before.
> > > > >
> > > > > We've tried adjusting the distributor, the range in which it will
> > > > > actually fire the coil is small, and it doesn't seem to matter where
> > > > > we position it, the car will die if I don't use the throttle to keep
> > > > > it at about 1k rpm.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also checked all of my vacuum routing and such (thanks for the
> ETKA
> > > > > slides and the routing diagram Louis-Alain).  There were two things
> > > > > that I had not connected, the first being the small hose that goes
> to
> > > > > the outside/underside of the igloo towards the front, and the ECU.
> > > > >
> > > > > The ECU hose deserves its own discussion.  The digrams I have
> clearly
> > > > > indicate that it go on the left-rear port (from the front of the car
> > > > > looking back) of that group of four small ports that come off the
> back
> > > > > of the IM.  The left rear port is slightly larger than the other
> three
> > > > > though, which would indicate to me that a larger hose needs to be
> > > > > attached to it.  My ECU hose is so brittle that I had to cut it back
> > > > > and put one fo those inline hose splices in it.  I was wondering if
> > > > > anyone else had noticed this.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, the car will start after a crank or two (right away pretty much)
> > > > > but will not idle at all, will run pretty roughly at 1k rpm and
> though
> > > > > the engine will rev when I give it more gas, it's still pretty rough
> > > > > (not like it used to be).  It seems like a timing issue, but I'm
> > > > > running out of places to be wrong on that.  I'm pretty sure the coil
> > > > > wouldn't even fire if I had the distributor in wrong (wrong relation
> > > > > to cam) and like I said above, it doesn't seem to matter where we
> > > > > position the distributor body versus the dizzy itself, the car still
> > > > > doesn't run well.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Audifans urq mailing list
> > > > Send posts to: mailto:urq at audifans.com
> > > > Manage your list connection:
> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/urq
> > > > Have an urq question?  Check the Audifans Knowledgebase!
> > > > http://www.audi-quattro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Audi/UrQuattro
> > > > Have an urq answer? ... Please help others by adding to the KB ... all
> > contributions welcome!
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Audifans urq mailing list
> > > Send posts to: mailto:urq at audifans.com
> > > Manage your list connection:
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/urq
> > > Have an urq question?  Check the Audifans Knowledgebase!
> > > http://www.audi-quattro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Audi/UrQuattro
> > > Have an urq answer? ... Please help others by adding to the KB ... all
> > contributions welcome!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Audifans urq mailing list
> > Send posts to: mailto:urq at audifans.com
> > Manage your list connection: http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/urq
> > Have an urq question?  Check the Audifans Knowledgebase!
> > http://www.audi-quattro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Audi/UrQuattro
> > Have an urq answer? ... Please help others by adding to the KB ... all
> contributions welcome!
> >
> 
>

More information about the urq mailing list