[urq] More of the car that wouldn't start

Fri Nov 5 14:21:53 EST 2004

hopefully somebody will chime in *hint* hint* who has made the little plug
from pvc pipe.  you drill it and install a air fitting so you can hook it up
to a compressor- keep pressur elow- like 10 psi or so.  Some people
recommend disconnecting the line the ECU as precaution...I don't have one of
these anymore as it won't fit the intake hose for a 3B...

so somebody else chime in please

Brandon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Thatcher Hubbard" <thatcher.hubbard at gmail.com>
To: "Patrick Carlier" <p.carlier at pandora.be>
Cc: <urq at audifans.com>
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [urq] More of the car that wouldn't start

> Per Brandon's suggestion, I'm going to try to figure out how to
> pressurize the IM with the equipment I have, or can borrow.  With the
> exception of a couple of hoses I've already replaced, all the other
> hoses are the same that left Ingolstadt in May of 82, so they'll be
> replaced one way or another.
>
> I had put replacing the Michelin Man hose down as a preventetive
> maintenance item on my list, after I'd gotten the car running again.
> I'm interested in the Aircraft Spruce solution that Bill offered up,
> so if I wrap it in tape and it "fixes" the problem, I'll do that
> immediately.
>
> Patrick, yes, I replaced every seal that you come even near when I
> took the head off it.  I put new injector inserts into the head, and
> replaced the original black injector o-rings with the green ones.
>
>
> On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 19:40:48 +0100, Patrick Carlier <p.carlier at pandora.be>
wrote:
> > Another way to test leaky intake parts is to have the engine running ,
> > and then spray a flammable liquid on suspicious junctions .
> > Motorstart spray is a good example , or a non lit propane torch .
> > Use with caution offcourse , don't go spraying like an idiot .
> >
> > If you hit or come near the intake leak , rpm will change .
> >
> > You've pulled the head right ?
> > How about the big o-rings that seal the injectors to the head .
> >
> > Pat
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brandon Rogers" <brogers at terrix.com>
> > To: "Thatcher Hubbard" <thatcher.hubbard at gmail.com>; "Buchholz, Steven"
> > <steven.buchholz at kla-tencor.com>
> > Cc: <urq at audifans.com>
> > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 7:22 PM
> > Subject: Re: [urq] More of the car that wouldn't start
> >
> > > Yes you can tightly wrap the igloo to turbo hose with duct tape for
> > > diagnostic purposes.  It may even last a while but I would get a new
hose
> > > asap - whether you choose factory or otherwise.  I know people have
> > figured
> > > out how to use modify metal tubes froma  5kt to work...
> > >
> > > This is why pressurizing the intake is, IMO, the best diagnostic tool
for
> > > the WX motors...Once you know the system is sealed you can focus on
> > > components and DC...
> > >
> > > Brandon
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Thatcher Hubbard" <thatcher.hubbard at gmail.com>
> > > To: "Buchholz, Steven" <steven.buchholz at kla-tencor.com>
> > > Cc: <urq at audifans.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 9:51 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [urq] More of the car that wouldn't start
> > >
> > >
> > > > You know, I hadn't even thought of that, despite the fact that I had
> > > > examined that hose while I had it out of the car and noticed that a
> > > > couple of the wire hoops had busted out of their fabric covering.
The
> > > > info I'd seen on that hose failing was all "I was driving on the
> > > > highway and suddenly", but I guess if it's a small tear it would be
> > > > just like taking the oil cap off.
> > > >
> > > > As a troubleshooting technique, can I just wrap the thing in duct
> > > > tape?  I know that it would not last, especially not at any kind of
> > > > RPM, but just to see if I can get the car to idle.
> > > >
> > > > I am also going to check the duty cycle.  The car has not had much
> > > > work done to it over the years, but what has been done was not
> > > > necessarily by a great mechanic.  When I removed the head from the
car
> > > > and was (carefully) removing the EM bolts and studs, I found a
couple
> > > > of points where someone had started to drill the studs out and then
> > > > thought the better of it.  The engine shop didn't think they'd be a
> > > > problem, but it was something of an indicator for me of how well it
> > > > had been maintained.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:28:46 -0800, Buchholz, Steven
> > > > <steven.buchholz at kla-tencor.com> wrote:
> > > > > ... one of the things you shouldn't worry at all about is the
ignition
> > > > > timing ... this is set very precisely based on the flywheel teeth
and
> > > > > the reference pin ... I suppose damaged flywheel might screw
timing
> > up,
> > > > > but that would most likely affect high rev operation (IMO).  Any
> > > > > adjustment of the distributor does not actually change the
ignition
> > > > > timing ...
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree that it is likely that there is unmetered air getting into
the
> > > > > intake tract ... and IMO one of the prime suspects is the same
intake
> > > > > hose we've been talking about on another thread.  The hose from
the
> > top
> > > > > of the airflow sensor (igloo) to the turbo inlet is notorious for
> > > > > leaking, and sometimes the breaks in the hose are not easily
visible.
> > > > > The hose is rather simple to remove and test to see if it is
leaking.
> > > > > Removing the vacuum line at the top of the igloo will cause the
> > > > > possibility of unmetered air, but I doubt it would be enough to
screw
> > up
> > > > > the idle.  You may want to plug it just to be sure ...
> > > > >
> > > > > One other thing to beware of is the OXS Freq Valve ... do you hear
it
> > > > > buzzing at all while the engine is running?  Do you hear the
buzzing
> > > > > start and stop while the engine is running?  If you have a duty
cycle
> > > > > meter, hook it up to the diagnostic plug in the loom near the
firewall
> > > > > on the passenger side and see what you are reading for duty cycle.
If
> > > > > you close the WOT switch at idle the ECU will force the duty cycle
to
> > > > > 50%, which tends to speed the idle up a tad on my car ...
> > > > >
> > > > > Given you are just talking about idle the manifold pressure line
to
> > the
> > > > > ECU is not likely to be contributing to your problem (IMO), but as
> > > > > always ... you can never say for sure for something that is not
> > > > > configured properly ...
> > > > >
> > > > > Bon chance!
> > > > > Steve B
> > > > > San Jose, CA (USA)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It will start now, as it would yesterday.  I checked the timing
> > (that
> > > > > > is, the position of the cam versus the crank) and I was indeed
off a
> > > > > > tooth, although when I restarted the car it ran even more
roughly
> > than
> > > > > > before.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We've tried adjusting the distributor, the range in which it
will
> > > > > > actually fire the coil is small, and it doesn't seem to matter
where
> > > > > > we position it, the car will die if I don't use the throttle to
keep
> > > > > > it at about 1k rpm.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I also checked all of my vacuum routing and such (thanks for the
> > ETKA
> > > > > > slides and the routing diagram Louis-Alain).  There were two
things
> > > > > > that I had not connected, the first being the small hose that
goes
> > to
> > > > > > the outside/underside of the igloo towards the front, and the
ECU.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The ECU hose deserves its own discussion.  The digrams I have
> > clearly
> > > > > > indicate that it go on the left-rear port (from the front of the
car
> > > > > > looking back) of that group of four small ports that come off
the
> > back
> > > > > > of the IM.  The left rear port is slightly larger than the other
> > three
> > > > > > though, which would indicate to me that a larger hose needs to
be
> > > > > > attached to it.  My ECU hose is so brittle that I had to cut it
back
> > > > > > and put one fo those inline hose splices in it.  I was wondering
if
> > > > > > anyone else had noticed this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, the car will start after a crank or two (right away pretty
much)
> > > > > > but will not idle at all, will run pretty roughly at 1k rpm and
> > though
> > > > > > the engine will rev when I give it more gas, it's still pretty
rough
> > > > > > (not like it used to be).  It seems like a timing issue, but I'm
> > > > > > running out of places to be wrong on that.  I'm pretty sure the
coil
> > > > > > wouldn't even fire if I had the distributor in wrong (wrong
relation
> > > > > > to cam) and like I said above, it doesn't seem to matter where
we
> > > > > > position the distributor body versus the dizzy itself, the car
still
> > > > > > doesn't run well.
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > >
> > > > >
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