[urq] Removing baked injector inserts from a WX head

Mon Sep 20 09:50:01 EDT 2004

It's enough to make me not want to touch the darn thing!

The good news is this:  All of the valve guides are new, I had them all
replaced while the shop was in there.  Also, the mechanic told me that all
of my valve springs were in good shape and were more or less spec.  The shop
I had the head work done at is good, I've used them before and so have
friends, they've always done good work, we've never run into any surprises.

Am I taking any great risk running a 120k engine with refreshed head on the
same lifters it had before?  I don't know if the valves were clicking badly
or not, I couldn't hear them over the EM leak (also remedied).

-----Original Message-----
From: John McMahon [mailto:jfm at nts-online.net] 
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 6:45 AM
To: Thatcher Hubbard
Subject: Re: [urq] Removing baked injector inserts from a WX head

Thatcher,
On a 4-cylinder water-cooled VW head, you take a
measurement (cold or warm ... except for garages and shops, most do it cold)
of the gap between the circular portion of the cam lobe and the top of the
shim, with the cam lobe pointing up and away.  Exhaust and intake having
different spec.'s as I recall.  THEN, if the gap is out of spec., you
depress the cam follower cup with a special tool, and with another special
tool, you lift and remove the shim.  Reading the thickness of the shim (via
the thickness stamp stamped on the underside OR with a caliper micrometer),
you add or subtract the out of spec. amount to the thickness measurement of
the shim.  Hopefully, you have a spare shim of the correct thickness in your
spare shim box.  If not, then it's a special trip to the dealer/foreign
parts supply house.  Since with 8 or 10 shims potentially being out of spec.
(but not normally, thank God!), and it being a Royal Pain to keep replacing
the shim each time when rotating the camshaft, this can be an involved,
time-consuming process.  For example, if you have "W", "X", and "Z"
thickness shims, and you need a "Y" thickness shim, you have to drive, call,
or special order a "Y" shim.  Finally, on your last valve, you notice that
the shim is out-of-spec. and it's that "Y" shim that you special ordered,
that you now realize that you didn't need to.  Once you have noted the
thickness of all of the shims, then it's just a matter of referring to the
note on that scratch paper that has since gone missing out of your Bentley
manual.  Add to all this is that some shims are hard to find, and some shims
have been placed face up by a tired or an unknowing mechanic and the
thickness stamp (in increments of  5/100ths of a millimeter: 3.70, 3.95,
4.05, etc.) has worn away by millions of cam lobe passes.  Compounding this
is that you have to round up or down when the out-so-spec. value is not an
easy to calculate 5/100ths of a millimeter.  On top of this, some shims have
been worn down from being installed for so long  a time that the thickness
stamp is not a true measurement any longer.  So, EVERY out-of-spec. valve
adjustment invloves time, three special tools, extra shims, pencil and
paper.  One last problem may arise after receiving the newly reconditioned
head back from the machine shop: the new guy in the shop has taken a few
thousandths off of the end of the valve stem, just enough that even the
thickest shim will no longer bring the cam lobe/cam follower gap back into
spec.  DON'T ASK ME HOW I KNOW ALL THIS!
Good luck to you ... I never did this on an 5-cylinder Audi head, but I
beleive that the procedure is just about the same.  There are some shortcuts
to this process, but not all are safe or expedient.  You are welcome to
write back if you have any questions.
John
John McMahon
Abilene, Texas
1990 Coupe quattro
1984 4000S quattro
1978 VW Scirocco Champagne Edition/Sidewinder
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Thatcher Hubbard" <thatcher.hubbard at computer-er.com>
To: <urq at audifans.com>
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: [urq] Removing baked injector inserts from a WX head

>   They finally came out.  I had been trying to get the last one (cylinder
5)
> out and it just spun, the other ones actually came out fine once I
realized
> (read: was told repeatedly) that they were threaded.  The insert on 5 was
> sort of a pain, but they all came out eventually.
>   Anybody have any advice on how to shim out solid lifters?
>
>   _____
>
> From: Ben Swann [mailto:benswann at comcast.net]
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:03 AM
> To: thatcher.hubbard at computer-er.com
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com; Ben Swann
> Subject: RE: [urq] Removing baked injector inserts from a WX head
>
> Ya, that is what I had to do once on similar VW head - pssibly an AUDI one
> too, but don't recall which one.  Need to be careful not to cut into the
> aluminum of the head - once the cut goes through, they may then be
unscrewed
> as the cutting seems to break them loose.  Consider replacing with the
brass
> injector inserts - if I recall they were a direct substitute and not
> expensive.
>
> Ben
>
> [From: "Thatcher Hubbard" <thatcher.hubbard at computer-er.com>
> Subject: RE: [urq] Removing baked injector inserts from a WX head
> To: <urq at audifans.com>
> Message-ID: <20040915204729.70FFB1B0724 at macserver.computer-er.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Okay, now I'm starting to worry then.  I can twist them pretty easily but
> the never come out any further.  It's like they're press fit in, with a
> ridge somewhere on the injector holder.  I guess I'll just cut 'em out
with
> an Olfa knife.  I'm not worried about damaging the head, just trying to do
> it the fast way.  I've had my car off the road long enough, I want to get
> this thing back together and going again.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Carlier [mailto:p.carlier at pandora.be]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 3:36 PM
> To: Thatcher Hubbard; Louis-Alain_Richard at computerhorizons.com
> Cc: urq at audifans.com; urq-bounces at audifans.com
> Subject: Re: [urq] Removing baked injector inserts from a WX head
>
> It's 13 mm .
> They are very tight sometimes .
> Audi used some kind of locktite when they put them in .
>
> Pat]
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