[urq] Hot Start Problems Continued...

Tue May 2 13:39:56 EDT 2006

Thanks David.

Unfortunately, it takes opening the hood, waiting a half-hour, cranking,
then she'll catch.

Anyone out there EFI'd their WX?  If so, how does the control unit sense
detonation?  Or is it strictly an exercise in trial and, um error?  I'd hate
to get rid of this motor for this issue alone-the bottom end has only 90k on
it, and the head was rebuilt only 1k miles ago.  Oh yeah, it sounds pretty
cool too...

Thanks,
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Schaible, David [mailto:David.Schaible at jrspharma.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 1:23 PM
To: Pasqualoni, James E; DGraber460 at aol.com
Cc: urq at audifans.com
Subject: RE: [urq] Hot Start Problems Continued...

Sugar will do it!! So will water????   That's a joke.....interesting
concept though.  I personally would do mods to lower the operating temp at
shutoff....some folks turn the rad fan to max to and idle for a few minutes,
if you have a/c though this might not cool anything, there's the old
discussion on water wetter (wasn't Brandon going to get the case study on
this??) and diff coolants, 7a oil pan helps....we've seen holes cut in the
hood, air flow tubes to certain regions, different rad fans, i/c spal fans,
water spray bars....some folks go as far as replacing the engine w/ a 20v
one

I have been contemplating adding a radiator spray bar but with the i/c spray
bar I'll drain the reservoir in an hour 

I think dennis needs to measure the temp at shutoff and some few points
after for the fuel rail, injectors etc. and we can calculate the boiling
point of a 10% ethanol (mmmmmmm beer) and gas mix at whatever pressure the
system is at.....i'm thinking it's very high at pressure....and if fuel is
boiling can you measure a pressure increase in the line....maybe injectors
don't leak at regular pressure but upon fuel boiling they leak down to
whatever spec pressure they should hold and keep some vapor in the line

However....if the car always starts after a few cranks, is it a problem?
It is embarrassing when you finish dinner with a hottie and are going to
take her home and it takes 2 minutes of cranking to start the
car......mmmmmm hottie.....reminds me of a time just like this, finally
starts, bj on the way home and going to do the deed on the hood as soon as
we're home, lay her down and start up and...."ohhhh I can't take it"
(gee I must just be tooooo much!)  No... the car hood is too hot....story
still had a happy ending

Uh oh...i'm sounding like bill, better go now....

David Schaible

JRS Pharma LP
2981 Rte 22
Patterson, NY 12563
845.878.3414

ALL STATEMENTS IN THIS CORRESPONDENCE ARE CONFIDENTIAL UNLESS OTHERWISE
NOTED

-----Original Message-----
From: Pasqualoni, James E [mailto:james.pasqualoni at gs.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 11:52 AM
To: 'DGraber460 at aol.com'
Cc: urq at audifans.com
Subject: Re: [urq] Hot Start Problems Continued...

Thanks Dennis.  Are there any additives that can be mixed with the fuel at
fill-up to raise the boiling point back up again?

  _____  

From: DGraber460 at aol.com [mailto:DGraber460 at aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 11:45 AM
To: Pasqualoni, James E; r0ssat0_987 at att.net; urq at audifans.com
Cc: pkrasusky at ups.com; sportscar at gwi.net; Bill.Perron at otis.com
Subject: Re: [urq] Hot Start Problems Continued...

In a message dated 5/2/2006 8:32:21 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
james.pasqualoni at gs.com writes:

Urq.  Yes, that is my suspicion and why I ordered one a few months back.
Just have to install it now.  I hope that's all it is!

Thanks. 

-----Original Message-----
From: r0ssat0_987 at att.net [mailto:r0ssat0_987 at att.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 10:31 AM
To: Pasqualoni, James E; urq at audifans.com
Cc: 'Perron, Bill'; 'pkrasusky at ups.com'; 'Sports Car Workshop'
Subject: Re: Hot Start Problems Continued...

Which car is this on, UrQ or 5kq?  My first bet is the check valve at
the
fuel pump.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Pasqualoni, James E" <james.pasqualoni at gs.com>
> The Symptoms:
> When cold, car starts immediately upon cranking.  Runs great with no
issues.
> Idle is strong and steady at 850 rpm.
> 
> Hot Starts:
> When attempting a hot start, after the car has been sitting for a few 
> minutes, it immediately catches, stumbles, then stalls.  Car will 
> continue cranking with good spark, but there appears to be some vapor 
> lock or flooding-not sure.  No strong smell of gas at all.
> 
> What's Been Done:
> -New 85 deg C injector cooling fan thermo switch.  Injector cooling 
> fan works fine -New vacuum thermo switch (the one on the block near 
> the ig distributor -Checked for vacuum leaks-none found
> 
> What should I pursue next?  I was leaning towards fuel pump check 
> valve, then injectors.  Does this make sense?  I don't believe that 
> there are any vacuum leaks, however, I will keep checking this as
well.
> 
> Thoughts, suggestions, please?
> 
> TIA,
> Jim

The check valve is not expensive and _might_ cure it, but if your area
has
started to put more ethanol in the fuel, which many areas are doing, you
will probably get vapor lock with all systems functioning to spec. The
alcohol lowers the boiling point of the fuel below the threshold of what
the
system was designed for some 20 odd years ago.
I put a manual switch to my cold start valve, which if operated briefly
will
get it to fire enough to lift the air plate, purge the air, and start
the
car. Since it is electrically opened and not pressure operated it allows
for
the air bubbles to purge.
I would bet that if you manually run your fuel pump you will hear the
vapor
bubbles "boiling" back into the tank via the recirc line.
Many listers still don't believe me on this issue, but that matters not.
Empirical evidence is what it is.

Dennis
Denver

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