[urq] Hot Start Problems Continued...

Tue May 2 13:49:21 EDT 2006

The 034 systems does not detect detonation, so it's not trial and
error so much as creeping up on settings that work.  I think people
tend to tune the system so it runs somewhat rich under boost so they
don't have to worry about it.  Which actually coincides with what most
production turbo cars do, running slightly rich as both a margin of
safety and too keep cylinder temps down.

A few people have pulled the Saab APC knock-detection system (which is
stand-alone) and wired that up to an LED in their dash.

On 5/2/06, Pasqualoni, James E <james.pasqualoni at gs.com> wrote:
> Thanks David.
>
> Unfortunately, it takes opening the hood, waiting a half-hour, cranking,
> then she'll catch.
>
> Anyone out there EFI'd their WX?  If so, how does the control unit sense
> detonation?  Or is it strictly an exercise in trial and, um error?  I'd hate
> to get rid of this motor for this issue alone-the bottom end has only 90k on
> it, and the head was rebuilt only 1k miles ago.  Oh yeah, it sounds pretty
> cool too...
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Schaible, David [mailto:David.Schaible at jrspharma.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 1:23 PM
> To: Pasqualoni, James E; DGraber460 at aol.com
> Cc: urq at audifans.com
> Subject: RE: [urq] Hot Start Problems Continued...
>
> Sugar will do it!! So will water????   That's a joke.....interesting
> concept though.  I personally would do mods to lower the operating temp at
> shutoff....some folks turn the rad fan to max to and idle for a few minutes,
> if you have a/c though this might not cool anything, there's the old
> discussion on water wetter (wasn't Brandon going to get the case study on
> this??) and diff coolants, 7a oil pan helps....we've seen holes cut in the
> hood, air flow tubes to certain regions, different rad fans, i/c spal fans,
> water spray bars....some folks go as far as replacing the engine w/ a 20v
> one
>
> I have been contemplating adding a radiator spray bar but with the i/c spray
> bar I'll drain the reservoir in an hour
>
> I think dennis needs to measure the temp at shutoff and some few points
> after for the fuel rail, injectors etc. and we can calculate the boiling
> point of a 10% ethanol (mmmmmmm beer) and gas mix at whatever pressure the
> system is at.....i'm thinking it's very high at pressure....and if fuel is
> boiling can you measure a pressure increase in the line....maybe injectors
> don't leak at regular pressure but upon fuel boiling they leak down to
> whatever spec pressure they should hold and keep some vapor in the line
>
> However....if the car always starts after a few cranks, is it a problem?
> It is embarrassing when you finish dinner with a hottie and are going to
> take her home and it takes 2 minutes of cranking to start the
> car......mmmmmm hottie.....reminds me of a time just like this, finally
> starts, bj on the way home and going to do the deed on the hood as soon as
> we're home, lay her down and start up and...."ohhhh I can't take it"
> (gee I must just be tooooo much!)  No... the car hood is too hot....story
> still had a happy ending
>
> Uh oh...i'm sounding like bill, better go now....
>
>
>
> David Schaible
>
>
>
>
> JRS Pharma LP
> 2981 Rte 22
> Patterson, NY 12563
> 845.878.3414
>
> ALL STATEMENTS IN THIS CORRESPONDENCE ARE CONFIDENTIAL UNLESS OTHERWISE
> NOTED
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pasqualoni, James E [mailto:james.pasqualoni at gs.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 11:52 AM
> To: 'DGraber460 at aol.com'
> Cc: urq at audifans.com
> Subject: Re: [urq] Hot Start Problems Continued...
>
> Thanks Dennis.  Are there any additives that can be mixed with the fuel at
> fill-up to raise the boiling point back up again?
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: DGraber460 at aol.com [mailto:DGraber460 at aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 11:45 AM
> To: Pasqualoni, James E; r0ssat0_987 at att.net; urq at audifans.com
> Cc: pkrasusky at ups.com; sportscar at gwi.net; Bill.Perron at otis.com
> Subject: Re: [urq] Hot Start Problems Continued...
>
>
>
> In a message dated 5/2/2006 8:32:21 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> james.pasqualoni at gs.com writes:
>
> Urq.  Yes, that is my suspicion and why I ordered one a few months back.
> Just have to install it now.  I hope that's all it is!
>
> Thanks.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: r0ssat0_987 at att.net [mailto:r0ssat0_987 at att.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 10:31 AM
> To: Pasqualoni, James E; urq at audifans.com
> Cc: 'Perron, Bill'; 'pkrasusky at ups.com'; 'Sports Car Workshop'
> Subject: Re: Hot Start Problems Continued...
>
> Which car is this on, UrQ or 5kq?  My first bet is the check valve at
> the
> fuel pump.
>
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Pasqualoni, James E" <james.pasqualoni at gs.com>
> > The Symptoms:
> > When cold, car starts immediately upon cranking.  Runs great with no
> issues.
> > Idle is strong and steady at 850 rpm.
> >
> > Hot Starts:
> > When attempting a hot start, after the car has been sitting for a few
> > minutes, it immediately catches, stumbles, then stalls.  Car will
> > continue cranking with good spark, but there appears to be some vapor
> > lock or flooding-not sure.  No strong smell of gas at all.
> >
> > What's Been Done:
> > -New 85 deg C injector cooling fan thermo switch.  Injector cooling
> > fan works fine -New vacuum thermo switch (the one on the block near
> > the ig distributor -Checked for vacuum leaks-none found
> >
> > What should I pursue next?  I was leaning towards fuel pump check
> > valve, then injectors.  Does this make sense?  I don't believe that
> > there are any vacuum leaks, however, I will keep checking this as
> well.
> >
> > Thoughts, suggestions, please?
> >
> > TIA,
> > Jim
>
>
>
>
> The check valve is not expensive and _might_ cure it, but if your area
> has
> started to put more ethanol in the fuel, which many areas are doing, you
> will probably get vapor lock with all systems functioning to spec. The
> alcohol lowers the boiling point of the fuel below the threshold of what
> the
> system was designed for some 20 odd years ago.
> I put a manual switch to my cold start valve, which if operated briefly
> will
> get it to fire enough to lift the air plate, purge the air, and start
> the
> car. Since it is electrically opened and not pressure operated it allows
> for
> the air bubbles to purge.
> I would bet that if you manually run your fuel pump you will hear the
> vapor
> bubbles "boiling" back into the tank via the recirc line.
> Many listers still don't believe me on this issue, but that matters not.
> Empirical evidence is what it is.
>
> Dennis
> Denver
>
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