[V8] re: Tis the season

[Justin Bowers]

I will add that when a car of mine was hit a number of years ago, my local
agent (and good friend) told me that I was now in the business of selling my
car to the insurance company.  He made it very clear that the objective of
the insurance company was to pay me the smallest amount possible and it was
my job to sell them on why it was worth more.

By the way, the company was Allstate - and yes they did low ball me with the
initial and subsequent offer.  In fact, it took nearly a month of driving a
rental car at their expense before they "bought" my used car from me at what
I thought was a fair price.

Bottom line, their job is to pay you the least they can and your job is to
convince them to pay more (as it is with any buy and sell transaction for an
auto regardless of whether it involves an insurance company.)

My $.02,

Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: v8-bounces+justin.bowers=comcast.net at audifans.com
[mailto:v8-bounces+justin.bowers=comcast.net at audifans.com] On Behalf Of
Roger M. Woodbury
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 7:43 PM
To: ekellock at gmail.com
Cc: v8 at audifans.com
Subject: [V8] re: Tis the season

The value of ten grand was considered "realistic" by the insurance adjuster 
handling the claim.  That was the offer.  Don't expect this to be an exact 
science, and don't ever make the mistake that an insurance adjuster is "one 
your side".  The insurance adjuster is working for the insurance company, 
and resolving claims as quickly, expediently, and as inexpensively as 
possible is what he or she is being paid to do.

When faced with an "oddball" claim, which is what a total on a relatively 
rare car like a V8 is, most adjusters will be purely flummoxed.  No 
insurance company will make an offer based on whim alone, but will use the 
information that they have available to them, one source will be their 
"book", be it NADA, Kelly, Hemmings or any or all of them, depending upon 
how thorough the adjuster is.

For the vast majority of automobiles ACV is the best and most proper way to 
insure the car.  The simple reason is that for the most part, the Actual 
Cash Value will always result in the most accurate appraisal and adjustment 
of the loss, if indeed any adjustment is necessary.  The difficulty comes 
with cars that have small numbers.

Here is a very good example, and it is very recent, and I think, to the 
point.  This fall I decided that it was time to let my '93 V8 go to a new 
owner.  It was about as good as I could make it, and had spent a lot of 
money on making sure that all leaks of any kind were fixed, and in so doing,

the timing belt and waterpump was completely serviced.  In addition the car 
had been completely refinished less than a year and a half ago, and the 
tires were nearly new.  Aside from a disconnected Bose audio, there was 
nothing to pick at about the car.  95000 miles or so.

Now, the NADA Guide showed the car to be worth, in my state, between ten and

twelve thousand dollars.  I really thought that to be rediculous, and 
certainly there was NO WAY that I could expect to get anything of that sort 
here in Maine.  So, I put it on eBay, and watched the auction process.

Early in the fall, the best ten day auction price that I could get was $6500

+/-.  I decided to keep the car.

Later on in the fall, I put the car up for auction on eBay again.  Less than

$5,000 that time.  I decided to keep the car.

A fellow lister contacted me and we discussed the car.  it fitted his needs 
and he paid my price, but it took about five months, and it was necessary to

find the ONE buyer who saw my car the same way that I did.

So, what is the ACV of my car at time of loss, had I totalled it?  The 
market determined that the car was worth between $4500 and $6500, which was 
a long way from the NADA Guide's figure of as much as $12,000.

Now, if I had had a total loss, I could have trotted out all the receipts 
for work that I had done recently on the car, along with photographs and 
done a dog and pony show, but the truth was, that the car was worth ONLY 
what it was worth in the market, and that was determined by how long I 
wanted to keep it searching for the "right buyer".

The reason that the insurance company wasn't terribly thrilled with your 
"documented proof" of value, based on other cars is contained in your own 
sentence:  you state "nearly the exact same condition" and "sold for....." 
Plainly put, the insurance company said "that was nice, when those cars were

sold, but this is now, and we believe that the real value of your car is 
X-dollars.  With only a total of 150 examples in the country there is no 
absolute value possible.  If an Authorized Audi dealer had been able to 
state that YOUR car would have brought $14,000 on his lot, then the 
insurance company would have had a much more difficult time justifying an 
offer of ten grand.  I paid fourteen grand for my V8, and had put seven 
thousand or so into it over the three and one half years and 35,000 miles 
that I put on it.  Does that mean that I should have expected a settlement 
of the full NADA Guide value at loss?  Absolutely not, because what I did 
was maintain my car in near perfect condition which only maintained it as a 
saleable car in the marketplace, and that sales price would be determined by

the buyer, not by my desire to sell it.

There is also something else that everyone should realize and that is there 
is NO set way that an insurance company adjusts or settles losses.  Each 
insurance company is divided into regions and territories.  Here in Maine, 
my policies are underwritten by the Northeast Region of USAA, for example. 
Claims are appraised and then adjusted (when necessary) by a claims 
appraiser/adjuster who is NOT employed by USAA. This claims 
appraiser/adjuster is an independent contractor who is paid under contract 
by USAA, and the results are analysed by a USAA supervisor...there is no 
USAA office in New England.  Certain types of claims are handled differently

than others....liability claims are normally not handled by independents, or

any claim that has a "long tail" will probably not be handled except by the 
Regional Office itself.   My nasty experience with my motorcycle was handled

locally by a contracted adjuster (I had just retired from the insurance 
agency business, and I knew the adjuster slightly.  He was a twit when I was

in the biz, and he was a bigger twit when I was on the outside looking in). 
I finally went over his head and got the Regional Claims Manager to handle 
this stupid, simple motorcycle loss ($2600 !) and the issue was resolved.

Now most insurance companies work about this way.  There is a regional 
office and that claims process, whether handled by inside personnel or 
outside contractors is ultimately overseen by a manager or a series of 
managers.  The entire system is capable of delivering mishandled claims, and

then there is the great potential for an individual claims adjuster or 
claims manager to just make bad judgements and decisions.  This happens with

ALL companies.

I have personally had really bad experience with Allstate, although I know a

lot of people who have been very gently caressed by "the good hands" people.

In that case, my wife (at the time) was hit in a parking lot by a woman who 
basically lied about the claim.  Allstate wanted us to bring the car to 
their drive through adjustment place and my wife did so. They denied the 
claim, PERIOD.  The circumstances were very clear, and the photographs of my

wife's car was absolute proof.  It was, oh, maybe an $800 loss.

Now, I hasten to add here, that my wife was a licensed insurance agent, and 
a Chartered Property and Casualty Underwriter, which in the industry, for 
those of you who have not nodded off yet, is sort of like having a doctorate

in insurance law, theory, practice and technicality.  She was also very 
retiring, but she got really made that her Mazda RX7 had been assaulted by 
this lying broad, so she sued.

In court, the lawyer for Allstate made a very bad mistake, and tried to 
deliver a lecture to the judge on contributory negligence.  The judge looked

at the photos, asked about five questions, and said that Allstate would pay 
the claim, that the Allstate defence didn't pass the "straight face test" 
and ordered Allstate out of his courtroom.

My point here is that you did exactly the right thing in pushing your claim.

You MUST assume that you are the ONLY person who will really advocate for 
yourself, that the insurance industry people who you interact with at time 
of loss may or may NOT act in your best interest, and may or may not every 
do a decent job of handling the whole issue.

The unfortunate part of all of this insurance angst, is that the vast 
majority of people are so uninformed about what their insurance is, and what

it is supposed to do, that they feel hurt when they don't get everything 
that they think that they should be entitled to get.  I was in the 
commercial insurance business almost to the exclusion of personal auto and 
homeowner's coverage, and I found that what I needed to do more than any 
other thing was to spend enough time with my clients...all of whom were 
small business people...to teach them how to be their own best underwriter 
and claims person.  That is what the independent insurance agent used to do,

but that approach and delivery system is being phased out more and more in 
favor of a "low dollar cost only" approach.  In the end, the individual 
consumer is deprived of information and service.

Oh, that's should be the end of my lecture....sorry:  I don't think about 
this much anymore, but everyonce in while...well, old habits die hard....

Roger 

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