[V8] squealing serp belt oddity

Ingo Rautenberg ingo.rautenberg at gmail.com
Tue Sep 25 08:38:51 PDT 2007 

Ah, maybe there's the rub.  The 5 speed at highway speeds will turn  
the motor at higher revs than the automatics, and so as not to  
overdrive the accessories, has a smaller damper.  The 4.2, which (in  
unmodified form) will not rev as freely/ high as the 3.6 automatic  
gets the largest (overdrive, if you will) pulley. Hmm.

My Euro ETKA 6 is corrupted on my PC, so I can't check --  I wonder  
if there is any difference in pulleys with the 4.2 6-speed vs. the  
4.2 automatic cars...

Ingo

On Sep 25, 2007, at 11:26 AM, Scott Simmons wrote:

> That's what I assumed, but what difference does 1 inch make?  I  
> understand under and overdrive pulleys, but they're usually  
> different by a large margin.
>
> *shrug*
>
> ~Scott S.
>
> Ingo Rautenberg wrote:
>
>> Dave,
>>
>> The ONLY difference I can see is that each has a different part  
>> No.  for the front dampener/pully assembly.  Perhaps Ron can  
>> measure the  various ones he has to confirm. If I had to guess,  
>> the 5 speed likely  has the smallest diameter and the 4.2 has the  
>> largest diameter.
>>
>> Ingo
>>
>> On Sep 25, 2007, at 9:24 AM, Coleman, David wrote:
>>
>>> That question was keeping me up last night as well -- but the  
>>> car's  under a cover, and I was just too ding dang tired to  
>>> uncover and  scour around for an answer.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing the different trans requires a different AC or   
>>> alternator mount configuration, moving the pulley closer inward.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: v8-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:v8-bounces at audifans.com]  
>>>> On  Behalf Of
>>>> Scott Simmons
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:04 AM
>>>> To: urq
>>>> Cc: v8 at audifans.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [V8] squealing serp belt oddity
>>>>
>>>> Why is there a difference between auto and manual?  The  
>>>> difference of
>>>> 30mm isn't much.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> urq wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> TFA indicates the following lengths:
>>>>>
>>>>>    PT Automatic  - 2460mm
>>>>>    PT Manual     - 2433mm
>>>>>    ABH Automatic - 2480mm
>>>>>
>>>>> HTH!
>>>>> Steve B
>>>>> San José, CA (USA)
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: v8-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:v8-bounces at audifans.com]  
>>>>> On  Behalf
>>>>
>>>> Of
>>>>
>>>>> Ron Wainwright
>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 1:09 PM
>>>>> To: Coleman, David
>>>>> Cc: v8 at audifans.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [V8] squealing serp belt oddity
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure. They looked the same when I was doing
>>>>> George's swap. I think I used the 4.2 pully in any
>>>>> event.
>>>>>
>>>>> But find out which pully you have Dave.
>>>>> & not sure if the 3.6 too 4.2 Auto belts are the
>>>>> same...but I do know the Manual 3.6 belt is shorter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron
>>>>>
>>>>> --- "Coleman, David" <David.Coleman at blackrock.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there an easy way to tell the pulleys (3.6, 4.2,
>>>>>> manual, automatic)
>>>>>> apart?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I still have a pulley on my old motor; I'll have to
>>>>>> run out to see if
>>>>>> it's still torqued down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Ron Wainwright [mailto:ron_01056 at yahoo.com]
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 4:00 PM
>>>>>>> To: Coleman, David
>>>>>>> Cc: v8 at audifans.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [V8] squealing serp belt oddity
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So if he used the 3.6 pully from you'r old 3.6
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> motor
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> than you need the Manual belt.
>>>>>>> Conti part#, 6K2433.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- "Coleman, David" <David.Coleman at blackrock.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alignment double and triple checked.   And every
>>>>>>>> pulley spins freely.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Interesting note on the belt size... I believe I
>>>>>>>> have the right size, as
>>>>>>>> the first one I got was too big.  I thought that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> was
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> due to the crank
>>>>>>>> pulley size difference between 3.6 and 4.2.
>>>>>>>> Perhaps there's a smaller
>>>>>>>> one still, the one for the 5-speed?  Does that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> there are three
>>>>>>>> different belt applications for the V8?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regarding the above, by the way, I believe the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3.6
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> crank pulley was used
>>>>>>>> when Keith swapped the 4.2 motor...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Ingo Rautenberg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [mailto:ingo.rautenberg at gmail.com]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 2:13 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: Coleman, David
>>>>>>>>> Cc: v8 at audifans.com
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [V8] squealing serp belt oddity
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IMO there is obviously something that either
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> aligned properly
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (doubt it) or one of your accessories is
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> putting a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> severe drag
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> relative to everything else.  A/C clutch
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> going/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> compressor seizing?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PS:  You DO have the correct size belt, right?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are two sizes -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I believe the automatic is bigger and the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5-speed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is shorter (forget
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> why) -- at least on the 5-speed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ingo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2007, at 12:51 PM, Coleman, David
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> SO - My '91 5-speed with 4.2 has been
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> enduring a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> squealing
>>>>>>>> serpentine
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> belt for several months.  In a nutshell:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *       It started squealing only at idle,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> would go away with
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> higher
>>>>>>>>>> RPMs
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *       Broke under load, nursed back home,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> replaced with new, still
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> squealed
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *       Replaced the coil spring behind
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> t-belt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cover with known good
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> used; squealing stopped for a month or so
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *       Started squealing again, this time
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> more
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> apparent with higher
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RPMs; nearly silent at idle.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *       Replaced shock absorber / tensioner
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> factory new;
>>>>>>>> squeals
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> like a mofo still.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The shock tensioner is fully compressed
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> (i.e.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> can't make the belt
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> tighter), yet under load, I can watch from
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> underneath the belt walk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>>> and forth across the lower idler pulley -
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> like
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the belt is just
>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> too loose.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone know if any of the pulleys
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> (aside
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> from the harmonic
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> balancer
>>>>>>>>>> / crank) are different sizes from 3.6 to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4.2?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The 4.2 belt is way
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>> big; the 3.6 belt is the one in question.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If no one knows about the pulley sizes,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> perhaps
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the Gates number
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>>> next smaller size???
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any ideas welcome!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -DaveC.  (nice car except it's embarrassing
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> drive)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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