[V8] suspension update

Wed Oct 1 21:37:38 PDT 2008

My tornado red car has H&Rs and Bilstein sports. I went to 16" Momo 
Ferraris on it soon after the suspension mod. 225/50 tires. Bounced like 
hell in town over the slightest bump - fine on the open road at speed. I 
finally went to 17" Boleros with 245/40 tires. That settled it down - 
the problem was that the suspension wasn't doing enough work with the 
16" tires. Once I went to a lower profile, the suspension had to work 
harder and it settled in quite well.
The new 5 speed came with H&Rs/Konis set to full soft and 18" rims with 
P-zeros (not sure of the size).
Now I have the opposite problem - fine in town, but on the freeway it 
will pitch or undulate just enough to irritate - especially at 70-80 mph.
I expect to adjust the shocks/struts 2 clicks from full soft. I think 
that should be enough added damping to knock this off.

I will say the either combo REALLY plants the car when I decide to get 
squirrelly with it. My son had a great A4 that he put a lot of thought 
and effort into with respect to suspension (factory sports) and 
rims/tires (Borbet C 17s, which in my opinion go out of round if you 
look wrong at them). He also raced SCCA course once a month done in FL. 
But he would be the first to admit that the V8 blew his A4 away in high 
speed cornering. My thought is still the wider stance and the added 
weight more than anything. We have some wicked decreasing radius 
cloverleafs down here that we love playing on. The V8 just clamps down 
and doesn't let go (don't lift!).
I'm still feeling my way with the 5 speed car - the auto was actually 
easier to push around. The 5 speed is quicker but to me takes a bit more 
work...

Dave Head

qshipq at aol.com wrote:
>  The yellows are better IMO than the reds, save a rear linear coil over.? Again, the wheels and tires are key.? In a 0 or +1 the konis tend to be a better fit.? Your biggest gain is in the return to stock ride height IMO.? Type 44 lowered create all sorts of handling issues that few folks address properly.? I put reds at full firm on the 5ktq race car, because they take and give the abuse very well, and can be adjusted to take a pretty stiff spring without sending it out for revalving ala Bilstein.? 
> 
> The v8 really needs 17in wheels to handle the heft of the car IMO.? 16's are a bare minimum, and the difference with 17's is significant.? The gains by going 18's is little to none.? If I was running urs4 wheels wtih 225's, I'd space those puppy's out as far as possible.? Like 20mm spacers.? v8's are sensitive to track more than any other chassis IMO/E.? 
> 
> 18 years of owning and tweeking type 44 chassis cars, including the first full coil overs x4, to me it's easy to find the ride that is 'right' and more specifically, one that is exactly not right.? I put in a lot of lowered springs because I'm told, I don't run them on any of my type 44 cars.? I'm a firm believer that you target your goal, then put together the combo that gets you there.? IME/O there is nothing inherently wrong with Bilsteins.? They do require and are more sensitive to other compromises, like sub-par subframe, worn control arm bushings, worn swaybar bushings, marginal steering damper, and bad alignment.? They also get a bad rap for 'blowing out' which is usually due to not putting in new dust boots on install.? 
> 
> Glad the yellows worked for you Ed.? Given the tire and wheel combo, not a bad choice.? That said, I've got several type 44 and C4 chassis running Bilsteins that ride with little compromise as well.? I just don't agree that Bilsteins are somehow a compromise to good dampening.? Then again, I'm also a fan of Boge Turbo Gas shocks on the type 44 as well.? With a properly aligned stock height quattro, they are tough to beat bang for buck.
> 
> My .02 arbitraged thru the rising peso
> 
> Scott J
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Kellock <ekellock at gmail.com>
> To: qshipq at aol.com; ed.kellock at msn.com; v8 at audifans.com
> Sent: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 9:25 pm
> Subject: RE: [V8] suspension update
> 
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> That's where I'm at now, stock ride height.  I have urS4 wheels with Pirello
> Pzero Nero 225/50-16.
> 
>>From your description in comparing Yellow and Red, it sounds like I'll be
> even more pleased with the Red Konis.
> 
> I've never had a problem with Bilsteins in the larger motions.  It's their
> behavior/feel in the really small stuff, the ripples and cracks and small
> undulations that all seem to be transmitted through to the seat bottom.
> 
> I've been over this a lot in the past and have learned that I am in the
> minority by far in my opinion of the Bilsteins and that's okay.  I have
> found a feel that I am comfortable with.
> 
> Thanks!
> Ed
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: v8-bounces at audifans.com 
>> [mailto:v8-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of qshipq at aol.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:07 PM
>> To: ed.kellock at msn.com; v8 at audifans.com
>> Subject: Re: [V8] suspension update
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>  Ed
>> The yellows have more damping and more rebound than the 
>> reds.? They are considered a "sport" shock.? The yellow 
>> rebound is better than the stock Bilstein HD's to a point.? 
>> IMU, the valving on the HD allows total bypass of the damping 
>> if a sudden impact happens.? That said, I really think what 
>> makes the best shock really depends on what the tire and 
>> wheel combo is.? IME, the B-HD work really well with heavier 
>> +2 wheels and tires, and the Koni yellows work well with 0 or 
>> +1 combos.? IME2, the konis in the winter can be brutally 
>> stiff, but bang for buck on the v8 the yellows are certainly 
>> not a bad compromise.
>>
>> Many on the S car list have sent the bilsteins to be custom 
>> valved to have more rebound.? With that added feature (IIRC 
>> like 50 bucks a shock), they are far and above the koni 
>> yellows.? Where I do like the konis is in the rear of a type 
>> 44 with linear rate coil over conversions on type 44 cars.? I 
>> ran these for years in many type 44's.? Living in Chicago, I 
>> found the front Koni's to get really stiff when the weather got cold.
>>
>> The best thing you can do for a v8 is put it at stock ride 
>> height, whatever shocks you choose
>>
>> HTH and my .02
>>
>> Scott J
>> 92 v8 ABT chip, euros, 17x8.5 mit 255/40 HTRZII,? stock 
>> suspension for now
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ed Kellock <ed.kellock at msn.com>
>> To: 'q - V8' <v8 at audifans.com>
>> Sent: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 3:24 pm
>> Subject: [V8] suspension update
>>
>>
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>> I finally caved and took my 93 to a shop to have stock 
>> springs put in to replace H&R's.  For some reason, I thought 
>> I had Koni Reds in there with the H&Rs.
>>
>> When I picked it up and headed home I was _very_ impressed.  
>> Very nice ride.  Absolutely _none_ of the jiggly wiggly busy 
>> ride that Bilstein HDs have exhibited in my 91 5spd, my 91 
>> Avant, and even in my 83 GTI that I had long long ago.
>>
>> I got under the car for another reason yesterday and 
>> discovered yellow tubes marked KONISPORT in the back.  Wow.  
>> I'm trying to remember if these are supposed to be stiffer 
>> than Reds or just what the differences might be.  I have a 
>> brand new set of Reds that I bought a couple years ago for 
>> the 5spd.  I've been trying to get some subjective feedback 
>> from various people who are using them with stock springs, 
>> but I think first-person experience is the only way to know 
>> for sure.  If Reds are less aggressive than Yellows, then I'm 
>> pretty sure I'll be pretty happy with them.  I could always 
>> change up what I'm doing and put the Yellows on the 5spd and 
>> vice versa.
>>
>> Anyway, I've driven about 50 miles of mixed driving, city, 
>> interstate, one passenger and four.  Still really impressed.  
>> It has felt a bit abrupt in a couple of instances, but still 
>> a fraction of anything untoward compared to the HD's.  I'm 
>> really impressed with the rock-steady feel of it.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
>>
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