[V8] electric cars

Mon Aug 3 15:57:29 PDT 2009

I am sure the electric only vehicle will be the standard for urban  
driving in many areas, but heating and air conditioning are still a  
big problem because of the energy requirements.  I am keeping my  
fingers crossed for a hydrogen car.  To me it is the only solution  
for long distance and or heavy loads.  I need a vehicle that can pull  
into a service station, and leave within 10 minutes with at least 200  
miles of range.

I even see hydrogen as the solution for the intermittent nature of  
energy sources like wind.  It is hard to store electricity, but  
especially in a fixed location like a wind turbine farm, excess  
energy can be directed to hydrogen production which is stored on site  
and converted to electricity in low wind times or sold as fuel.

One thing I am pretty sure about though is US govt subsidies that can  
be used to buy non-US made cars is not going to do much to re- 
vitalize any US industry but auto loans. If my memory serves me  
correctly, it was the greedy pig #**^%ers in the financial world that  
caused the collapse of our economy.  I see no reason to reward them.   
Truth be told, I would like to take the inhabitants of Wall Street  
and Congress and use them as feed stock for a cat food plant.   
Probably too toxic though.

Dave

On Aug 3, 2009, at 3:12 PM, John Bysinger wrote:

> I have been looking to join the electric car "hacker garage" ranks  
> for a
> while now.  I bought a '69 triumph spitfire at one point intending  
> to use it
> for the project, but metal cancer was too far along in that car and  
> plans
> changed.  My wife thinks I'm nuts, but I have this oddball idea of
> converting the V8 once the gas mill gives up the ghost.  I doubt I  
> ever
> will, but it's fun to think about.  V8's sure to have a heck of a  
> lot of
> room for batteries though.
>
> -John
> '90V8Q
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Mike Arman <Armanmik at earthlink.net>  
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Its coming . . .
>>
>> We are going to see electric cars soon, not hybrids like the Volt  
>> or the
>> Pious, but 100% electric
>> cars, battery powered, just like a four-wheeled laptop.
>>
>>
>> Doesn't scare me in the least, as a long-time Audi owner I have  
>> gotten
>> pretty good at
>> troubleshooting and fixing balky automotive electrical systems ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Nissan plans to make the rather pretentiously named "Leaf" (cue
>> green-gasm), but despite the dumb
>> name, it is actually a pretty usable vehicle. They're talking about 2
>> million of them a year. Top
>> speed will get you arrested in most states, and range is 100 miles  
>> between
>> recharges. Quite frankly,
>> that range covers 95% of the driving I do, and I have the V8Q if I  
>> need to
>> go further. Cost expected
>> to be comparable to present cars.
>>
>>
>> All the other car companies are jumping on the bandwagon too. We  
>> are going
>> to see some SERIOUS
>> competition for range, there is a LOT of money at stake here. Battery
>> technology is advancing
>> rapidly (like any technology that you pour money into), and I'd  
>> wager that
>> inside of five years,
>> we'll be able to buy an all-electric car with equivalent range,
>> performance, and price as a Ford
>> Escort or Hyundai or similar. Nothing spectacular, but a 100%  
>> electrical
>> replacement for the average
>> gas powered econobox.
>>
>> Remember that MOST people aren't interested in cars, they just  
>> want to get
>> somewhere (and back) for
>> the least amount of fuss and lowest cost. We're the strange ones  
>> here, who
>> in their right mind would
>> put up with the consummate weirdness and expense of the V8Q unless  
>> it was a
>> fetish object?
>>
>>
>> Advantages of the electric car are legion - obviously, no gasoline.
>> Electricity comes from the local
>> utility company, which is A) regulated by the state PSC or  
>> equivalent, so
>> no $4.00 a gallon
>> surprises based on commodity futures or other manipulation (but  
>> remember
>> Enron), and B) while power
>> plants do emit pollutants, it is much easier to control them at one
>> central, professionally
>> monitored and run location than at 20,000,000 end users (the  
>> cars). We may
>> find ourselves back in
>> the nuclear power plant business after all.
>>
>> The vehicles themselves are FAR simpler - no engine, smog  
>> controls, OBD-II,
>> ECU, MAF, catalytic
>> converter, exhaust system, muffler, fuel tank, fuel pump, fuel  
>> injection,
>> oil and filter changes
>> (which are another prime source of pollution), no more tuneups, no  
>> oxygen
>> sensors, no heavy,
>> complicated, expensive and unreliable transmissions (maybe a  
>> differential),
>> no spark plugs, no
>> radiator, no water pump, no serpentine belts, rollers, tensioners,
>> alternators, and on and on and on.
>>
>> The only significant problem right now is battery capacity (range)  
>> and
>> expense. Hybrids such as the
>> Pious and the Volt have auxiliary gasoline engines (with the  
>> attendant
>> complexity and expense)
>> simply because current batteries are inadequate - but that is  
>> changing and
>> it is changing rapidly.
>> These hybrids are a dead end - once we have adequate battery  
>> capacity, the
>> game is over for them.
>>
>>
>> An electric car is a simple machine: A four wheeled box with  
>> brakes, a
>> battery, an electric motor
>> and associated controllers, and creature comforts.
>>
>> Since the battery capacity is limited, the various power consumers  
>> need to
>> be optimized. No more
>> incandescent headlights - so all LEDs or HID or compact  
>> fluorescents. (I
>> have a dozen light fixtures
>> in my hangar, each one takes two bulbs. If I use 24 75 watt bulbs,  
>> that's
>> 1,800 watts an hour, 15
>> amps draw at 120 volts. If I use 24 CFLs, they are 18 watts each,  
>> or 432
>> watts, or 3.6 amps - just
>> over 1/5th the current for the same amount of light.)
>>
>> Car entertainment systems draw next to nothing unless someone goes  
>> berserk,
>> call it an amp or two.
>>
>> Air conditioning does take some power, and it is difficult to sell  
>> a car
>> without A/C - impossible in
>> Florida and Texas. Small motor driving a high efficiency  
>> compressor might
>> work, someone has
>> developed a SONIC compressor with no moving parts at all, that  
>> might work
>> better.
>>
>> Heat is also a power hog - while a resistance space heater will do  
>> the job,
>> you'll kill the battery
>> trying to stay warm. Possibly a heat exchanger on the electric  
>> motor? Maybe
>> even better insulation
>> in the car, just like we now do in houses?
>>
>> The motor controller is interesting - all solid state, one module.  
>> I can
>> already buy solid state
>> relays that will switch 220 volts at 15 amps (3,300 watts, 4.4 hp)  
>> for a
>> $20 bill, they are the size
>> of a deck of cards. The capacity of those is going up and the  
>> price is
>> coming down.
>>
>> Electric cars are now at the point where computers were just after  
>> the
>> TRS-80 and the Apple II were
>> announced - they have moved out of the hacker's garages and are just
>> entering the mainstream.
>> Remember that computers cost $2,000 back then, and the market was  
>> small.
>> Cars cost ten times that
>> and the market is HUGE - tell me about all the R&D money that is  
>> going to
>> be POURED into electric
>> cars by the major car companies and some governments now that they  
>> are
>> beginning to be mainstream -
>> it is going to be HUGE, and whoever gets it figured out best (and  
>> first) is
>> going to make Bill Gates
>> look like an absolute pauper.
>>
>> Now - when can I buy an all-electric Audi A5 Cabrio for the same  
>> money as
>> the gasoline model, and
>> with the same performance? I'm thinking it may be sooner than we  
>> expect -
>> five or ten years and the
>> gasoline automobile will be a curiosity as in "People actually  
>> drove those
>> things?"
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Mike Arman
>> V8Q (looking more and more like a dinosaur, big, fast, expensive,  
>> belongs
>> in a museum because the
>> CLIMATE CHANGED!)
>>
>>
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>
>
> -- 
> -john at bysinger.net
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