[V8] electric cars

[George Tur]

Hydrogen isn't going come for decades. The infrastructure cost required to 
distribute and hold it at the local level is just to much for an early 
deployment. I do like all electric cars but the cost of electricity is going 
to sky rocket if Obama and his band get their way with the cap and tax bill. 
Also, the distribution network is iffy, and it's unclear as to what the 
maintenance costs of the all electric car is going to be. Right now we usually 
wind up replacing batteries every 5 or 6 years. Unless the battery technology 
improves dramatically imagine the cost of replacing the jumbo batteries that 
an all electric will require, it'll make the cost of replacing a Prius battery 
seem cheap. Overall I think what we'll see more and more of are hybrids and 
diesels, those are the power mechanisms that most easily fit into our current 
infrastructure. Drove my friends Jetta diesel a couple of months ago and 
despite knowing the specs I was still surprised at the end of the day that I 
had only used a little over a gallon to commute 60 miles. A perfect commute 
vehicle for me, plenty of pep, good heater and a/c and while the fit and 
finish wasn't up to Audi standards it was still pretty good. 

On a closing note, while I agree with you that the bastards in Congress and in 
the financial companies opened the doors on the financial crisis I can't say 
that the ordinary Joe blow in the street didn't do his part for pushing the 
crisis over the edge. I saw to many real estate agents and local bank 
officials push through deals that just didn't make sense. The greed went from 
top to bottom, across race, gender and religion. There was a definite lack of 
restraint and responsibility on every ones part in this fiasco.

Enough of the soap box, have to figure out how to get my stubby fingers in 
there to replace the slave cylinder. This car just piles one problem on top of 
another.


 
*************Dave wrote ****************

I am sure the electric only vehicle will be the standard for urban  
driving in many areas, but heating and air conditioning are still a  
big problem because of the energy requirements.  I am keeping my  
fingers crossed for a hydrogen car.  To me it is the only solution  
for long distance and or heavy loads.  I need a vehicle that can pull  
into a service station, and leave within 10 minutes with at least 200  
miles of range.

I even see hydrogen as the solution for the intermittent nature of  
energy sources like wind.  It is hard to store electricity, but  
especially in a fixed location like a wind turbine farm, excess  
energy can be directed to hydrogen production which is stored on site  
and converted to electricity in low wind times or sold as fuel.

One thing I am pretty sure about though is US govt subsidies that can  
be used to buy non-US made cars is not going to do much to re- 
vitalize any US industry but auto loans. If my memory serves me  
correctly, it was the greedy pig #**^%ers in the financial world that  
caused the collapse of our economy.  I see no reason to reward them.   
Truth be told, I would like to take the inhabitants of Wall Street  
and Congress and use them as feed stock for a cat food plant.   
Probably too toxic though.

Dave


On Aug 3, 2009, at 3:12 PM, John Bysinger wrote:

> I have been looking to join the electric car "hacker garage" ranks  
> for a
> while now.  I bought a '69 triumph spitfire at one point intending  
> to use it
> for the project, but metal cancer was too far along in that car and  
> plans
> changed.  My wife thinks I'm nuts, but I have this oddball idea of
> converting the V8 once the gas mill gives up the ghost.  I doubt I  
> ever
> will, but it's fun to think about.  V8's sure to have a heck of a  
> lot of
> room for batteries though.
>
> -John
> '90V8Q
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Mike Arman <Armanmik at earthlink.net>  
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Its coming . . .
>>
>> We are going to see electric cars soon, not hybrids like the Volt  
>> or the
>> Pious, but 100% electric
>> cars, battery powered, just like a four-wheeled laptop.
>>
>>
>> Doesn't scare me in the least, as a long-time Audi owner I have  
>> gotten
>> pretty good at
>> troubleshooting and fixing balky automotive electrical systems ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Nissan plans to make the rather pretentiously named "Leaf" (cue
>> green-gasm), but despite the dumb
>> name, it is actually a pretty usable vehicle. They're talking about 2
>> million of them a year. Top
>> speed will get you arrested in most states, and range is 100 miles  
>> between
>> recharges. Quite frankly,
>> that range covers 95% of the driving I do, and I have the V8Q if I  
>> need to
>> go further. Cost expected
>> to be comparable to present cars.
>>
>>
>> All the other car companies are jumping on the bandwagon too. We  
>> are going
>> to see some SERIOUS
>> competition for range, there is a LOT of money at stake here. Battery
>> technology is advancing
>> rapidly (like any technology that you pour money into), and I'd  
>> wager that
>> inside of five years,
>> we'll be able to buy an all-electric car with equivalent range,
>> performance, and price as a Ford
>> Escort or Hyundai or similar. Nothing spectacular, but a 100%  
>> electrical
>> replacement for the average
>> gas powered econobox.
>>
>> Remember that MOST people aren't interested in cars, they just  
>> want to get
>> somewhere (and back) for
>> the least amount of fuss and lowest cost. We're the strange ones  
>> here, who
>> in their right mind would
>> put up with the consummate weirdness and expense of the V8Q unless  
>> it was a
>> fetish object?
>>
>>
>> Advantages of the electric car are legion - obviously, no gasoline.
>> Electricity comes from the local
>> utility company, which is A) regulated by the state PSC or  
>> equivalent, so
>> no $4.00 a gallon
>> surprises based on commodity futures or other manipulation (but  
>> remember
>> Enron), and B) while power
>> plants do emit pollutants, it is much easier to control them at one
>> central, professionally
>> monitored and run location than at 20,000,000 end users (the  
>> cars). We may
>> find ourselves back in
>> the nuclear power plant business after all.
>>
>> The vehicles themselves are FAR simpler - no engine, smog  
>> controls, OBD-II,
>> ECU, MAF, catalytic
>> converter, exhaust system, muffler, fuel tank, fuel pump, fuel  
>> injection,
>> oil and filter changes
>> (which are another prime source of pollution), no more tuneups, no  
>> oxygen
>> sensors, no heavy,
>> complicated, expensive and unreliable transmissions (maybe a  
>> differential),
>> no spark plugs, no
>> radiator, no water pump, no serpentine belts, rollers, tensioners,
>> alternators, and on and on and on.
>>
>> The only significant problem right now is battery capacity (range)  
>> and
>> expense. Hybrids such as the
>> Pious and the Volt have auxiliary gasoline engines (with the  
>> attendant
>> complexity and expense)
>> simply because current batteries are inadequate - but that is  
>> changing and
>> it is changing rapidly.
>> These hybrids are a dead end - once we have adequate battery  
>> capacity, the
>> game is over for them.
>>
>>
>> An electric car is a simple machine: A four wheeled box with  
>> brakes, a
>> battery, an electric motor
>> and associated controllers, and creature comforts.
>>
>> Since the battery capacity is limited, the various power consumers  
>> need to
>> be optimized. No more
>> incandescent headlights - so all LEDs or HID or compact  
>> fluorescents. (I
>> have a dozen light fixtures
>> in my hangar, each one takes two bulbs. If I use 24 75 watt bulbs,  
>> that's
>> 1,800 watts an hour, 15
>> amps draw at 120 volts. If I use 24 CFLs, they are 18 watts each,  
>> or 432
>> watts, or 3.6 amps - just
>> over 1/5th the current for the same amount of light.)
>>
>> Car entertainment systems draw next to nothing unless someone goes  
>> berserk,
>> call it an amp or two.
>>
>> Air conditioning does take some power, and it is difficult to sell  
>> a car
>> without A/C - impossible in
>> Florida and Texas. Small motor driving a high efficiency  
>> compressor might
>> work, someone has
>> developed a SONIC compressor with no moving parts at all, that  
>> might work
>> better.
>>
>> Heat is also a power hog - while a resistance space heater will do  
>> the job,
>> you'll kill the battery
>> trying to stay warm. Possibly a heat exchanger on the electric  
>> motor? Maybe
>> even better insulation
>> in the car, just like we now do in houses?
>>
>> The motor controller is interesting - all solid state, one module.  
>> I can
>> already buy solid state
>> relays that will switch 220 volts at 15 amps (3,300 watts, 4.4 hp)  
>> for a
>> $20 bill, they are the size
>> of a deck of cards. The capacity of those is going up and the  
>> price is
>> coming down.
>>
>> Electric cars are now at the point where computers were just after  
>> the
>> TRS-80 and the Apple II were
>> announced - they have moved out of the hacker's garages and are just
>> entering the mainstream.
>> Remember that computers cost $2,000 back then, and the market was  
>> small.
>> Cars cost ten times that
>> and the market is HUGE - tell me about all the R&D money that is  
>> going to
>> be POURED into electric
>> cars by the major car companies and some governments now that they  
>> are
>> beginning to be mainstream -
>> it is going to be HUGE, and whoever gets it figured out best (and  
>> first) is
>> going to make Bill Gates
>> look like an absolute pauper.
>>
>> Now - when can I buy an all-electric Audi A5 Cabrio for the same  
>> money as
>> the gasoline model, and
>> with the same performance? I'm thinking it may be sooner than we  
>> expect -
>> five or ten years and the
>> gasoline automobile will be a curiosity as in "People actually  
>> drove those
>> things?"
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Mike Arman
>> V8Q (looking more and more like a dinosaur, big, fast, expensive,  
>> belongs
>> in a museum because the
>> CLIMATE CHANGED!)
>>
>>
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>
>
> -- 
> -john at bysinger.net
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