[V8] More of Roger's Ten Best....

[Seamus O'Carey]

Don't forget the Subaru Brat.  I still want one with the rearward facing
seats in the bed!

We should make another list of the best trucks that weren't trucks.  We've
got most of it already:
Brat
Caddy
Combi
Corvair p/u
El Camino
Ranchero


On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Ed Kellock <ekellock at gmail.com> wrote:

> Just recently, here in the States, Ford has begun advertising their
> small front wheel drive box van from Europe.  I think it makes great
> sense and look forward to seeing them on the streets.  We'll see...
> I've also been please to see more (Daimler) Chrysler Sprinters on the
> road.
>
> The VW Caddy, Combi and the Corvair p/u were destined to be failures,
> along with the Ranchero and El Camino mainly because they were the
> all-season tire of the car vs. truck world....  They don't do any one
> thing especially well.
>
> Ed
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:40 AM, Roger Woodbury
> <rmwoodbury at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> > Oh, and I forgot to diatribe about trucks.
> >
> > It is strange that we have not developed a new and more intelligent form
> of
> > light commercially based utility vehicle.  But the truth is that we are
> > still making the same sort of truck that Henry first made out of his
> Model
> > T:  long nose with room for two in the cab and a cargo bed out back.  The
> US
> > auto industry makes trucks the same way today.
> >
> > I wonder why it is that in this time of increased congestion and rising
> fuel
> > costs, we still cling to the old fashioned front engine rear drive
> > configuration that is very short on utility and long on consumption.  To
> > make matters worse, many trucks now have extended cabs that will hold as
> > many as six occupants while the beds have shrunk to as little as six feet
> in
> > length.
> >
> > Having a near daily need to a truck-like utility vehicle, I wonder why
> the
> > makers can't come up with a cab-over or at least short nosed truck, with
> a
> > modern high performance and high efficiency engine?  As a practical
> matter a
> > bed of at least eight feet in length is not really very usable where real
> > utility is concerned.  If the nose was shorter on utility vehicles like
> > pickup trucks, beds could be as long as say, ten feet, or as short as
> eight
> > feet with the expanded cab still provided where more inside cargo or
> > passenger capacity was needed.  A pickup truck that is sixteen feet long
> > while still maintaining an eightfoot bed seems to make far more sense to
> me
> > than the great big trucks that we produce now as "utility" vehicles.
> >
> > And a truck that could have 3/4 ton capacity with a four cylinder
> > turbodiesel engine ought to be extremely popular.  If the transmission
> had
> > seven speeds, it would be more than fast enough to keep pace with traffic
> > even carrying a large payload.
> >
> > So far all that truck manufacturers seem to be able to do is build 1918
> > vintage trucks that are "updated" with bigger engines and more cupholders
> > than they could even imagine back then.
> >
> > Roger
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: diemarthadie at aol.com [mailto:diemarthadie at aol.com]
> > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:57 AM
> > To: rmwoodbury at roadrunner.com; V8 at audifans.com
> > Subject: Re: [V8] More of Roger's Ten Best....
> >
> > Just to be clear, Roger, I was joking about the X1/9 and the Chevy
> > wagon, and the Jeepster, and the Scout.  Dead serious about the
> > Chevette though ;)
> >
> > Why the 240D over the 300D?  Personal experience or ?
> >
> > The 300D has become a bit of a collector/biofuel prize.  I've been very
> > surprised at the asking prices for decent models of late - and for
> > crappy ones too.  I briefly shopped them when looking for a new family
> > truckster, before finding a very serviceable and cheap Voyager.
> >
> > BTW, as much as it pains me, I would probably have to put a minivan on
> > the list.  Whether it was the Dodge Caravan for really starting it all
> > or the Honda Odyssey (or current Town & Country) for perfecting much of
> > it.  My work vehicle was a first generation Caravan for many years.  We
> > put 200k on it, loading and unloading it with complete radio studios
> > and transmission systems, trekking from the wilds of SC to NYC.  It
> > lost most of the rooftop paint and rusted around the rear window, but
> > everything else just kept working.
> >
> > John
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roger Woodbury <rmwoodbury at roadrunner.com>
> > To: V8 at audifans.com
> > Sent: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:17 am
> > Subject: [V8] More of Roger's Ten Best....
> >
> >
> > I am having trouble with this list, and have found that I am considering
> > revisions as I go along. All of this is taking time, and making me do a
> > lot
> > of reading of old articles and books that I have on my shelf.  It is
> > interesting because some of the cars that at first appeared to me to be
> > obvious choices have paled and passed into shadow, while some cars that
> > I
> > never considered, NOR would have considered, have sparked some renewed
> > interest.
> >
> > Appreciated also are the comments that I have received.  I certainly had
> > forgotten all about the Fiat X1/9.  And why not:  Fiat was fading away
> > here
> > when that car was introduced, but I did think a bit about one as I was
> > commuting to Massachusetts for reserve military duty, and figured that I
> > could buy one out of my reserve pay.  Then I came to my senses realizing
> > that a Fiat was going to be, well, a Fiat, and here in Maine that
> > wasn't a
> > good thing.  Besides, if one wanted to point to a mid engined sports
> > car,
> > then why not a Porsche 904GTS that you could have ordered from the
> > Porsche
> > dealer, or perhaps later on a 914-6 (which I loved the sound of best),
> > or a
> > 914 -2 litre which was a better car?  Nope. All of these simply don't
> > pass
> > over the bars that I have put up to mark the ten best.
> >
> > So also I think of the big Chevrolet Caprices and other cars like
> > Seamus's
> > Cordoba as not particularly significant and certainly not "the best" in
> > any
> > way.  Why a big Chevvy when Dodges, Fords, Plymouths etc, etc, etc,
> > were all
> > much the same:  solid rear axles and big relatively slow turning eight
> > cylinder engines carrying a great big box?  Why a Cordoba over a Monte
> > Carlo
> > or Grand Prix?  They were all big boxy coupes with the same old
> > suspension
> > and driveline that had been made here for decades.  The only significant
> > personal coupe built in the US since WWII was the Oldsmobile Toronado,
> > and
> > while's I would love to have one now as a summer car, they really
> > weren't
> > the "best" at much of anything....of course: that's just MY opinion.
> >
> > Right now, I am actually running out of room on the list.  I want to
> > add a
> > couple more as I think they were the "best" for some reason or other.
> > So, I
> > am struggling, and no more so than with the general classification of
> > "sports car".  So, this morning, I will start with that.  And you will
> > be
> > surprised, I'll bet.
> >
> > *1957 Chevrolet Corvette -  Now, I am not a Corvette fan.  Never have
> > been.
> > A friend of mine in high school had one and I was insanely jealous
> > until I
> > was given a ride.  I couldn't believe that anyone was serious about such
> > vehicles after that one ride:  holy cowl shake?  Can you say
> > "buckboard"?
> > But the truth is that the Chevrolet Corvette is a significant event in
> > US
> > automobile history, and the best of the cars I believe was probably the
> > first revision of the C1 car that came out in 1957.  Oh, I know that
> > there
> > are much better Corvettes in terms of handling, driving, creature
> > comforts,
> > power etc, etc, etc.  But this particular year was significant because
> > it
> > marked a true change away from what was originally a nice car to drive
> > to
> > the country club and GM's attempt at producing a real, world class
> > sports
> > car.  This car...the 1977...had optional fuel injection, and to make a
> > the
> > point a bit clearer, the Corvette had fuel injection BEFORE Mercedes
> > brought
> > out the 300SL with it's injection.  Now I suppose one could carp that
> > the
> > Rochester system in the 'Vette was more akin to a pot burning kerosene
> > stove
> > than the first Bosch system in the Mercedes, but it did produce a
> > significant increase in power and performance for the Corvette.
> >
> > *1983 Mercedes-Benz 240D -  Oh, I can hear the howls and screams from
> > here.
> > But this is truly one of the great cars every produced by anyone.  By
> > 1983
> > Mercedes has perfected its wax like undercoating so the cars were far
> > more
> > resistant to corrosion here in the US than before and the cars would
> > stand
> > up to regular use in US driving conditions.  This was the last year for
> > this
> > car, and when it gave way to the new generation 190/190D in 1984, it
> > gave
> > away an awful lot.  Never again would there be a virtually hand built
> > and
> > carefully hand checked and rechecked economy car produced in the world.
> > The
> > 1984 190/190D was a find small car and very much a Mercedes, but
> > nothing was
> > the same:  the old 240 D was rugged and overbuilt and its quality and
> > engineering excellent can be illustrated by the design of the door latch
> > which was discontinued with the end of the model run. The latch was so
> > well
> > made that the car could be picked up and hung by the door handle (if the
> > handle itself would hold togther):  the cars were crash proof beyond
> > belief.
> > Also the 240D engine was a "generations" power plant:  with basic
> > service it
> > would run forever, and many the world over are still running on and on
> > today.  I'd love to have one of these cars now, as a fun, summer car.
> > Slow
> > as a snail going up hill in a howling downhill wind, but reliable.
> > Inexpensive to buy and maintain if you measure such things in terms of
> > decades.
> >
> >
> >
> > So, those are two more of the ten best.  I will have two more perhaps
> > later,
> > but it is a nice morning here, and I need to go outside and   fix the
> > barn
> > doors so that they close properly. Winter is coming and I fear it is
> > coming
> > too soon!
> >
> > Roger
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Audifans V8 mailing list
> > Send posts to: mailto:V8 at audifans.com
> > Manage your list connection: http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/v8
> >
> > You can help keep the audifans site running by shopping at
> > http://audifans.com/shop/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Audifans V8 mailing list
> > Send posts to: mailto:V8 at audifans.com
> > Manage your list connection: http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/v8
> >
> > You can help keep the audifans site running by shopping at
> http://audifans.com/shop/
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Audifans V8 mailing list
> Send posts to: mailto:V8 at audifans.com
> Manage your list connection: http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/v8
>
> You can help keep the audifans site running by shopping at
> http://audifans.com/shop/
>
>