[V8] LPG con version, or if it's too good to be true, the Audigods will stuff it up your nose

[Roger M. Woodbury]

Hi Mike:  The reason I suggested an auxialliary tank is that in rural areas 
such as the one in which I live, the available of propane fueling points is 
sparce.  An additional, say, 2.5-5 gallons of fuel available somewhere might 
make the car truly usable in more open country.  Also I wonder if it would 
be possible to have a shop manufacture a propane tank the size of the 
existing fuel tank in the V8?  It is common for all sorts of places here to 
make fuel tanks for boats of all kinds.  I had a steel 35 gallon tank made 
for my long departed Slickcraft boat (aka "The Torpedo Boat) years ago.  If 
a tank were made of stainless steel why couldn't one be mounted where the 
OEM tank is now?

This is interesting.  I am now looking out my study window at my Chevy truck 
with its enjoyment of $4.50 gasoline at the rate of barely 13 miles 
per.....gotta look into where a propane fueling place is anywhere near me.

Roger

-----Original Message----- 

From: Mike Arman
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 8:40 AM
To: Roger M. Woodbury ; v8 at audifans.com
Subject: Re: LPG con version, or if it's too good to be true, the Audigods 
will stuff it up your nose

On 3/4/2012 5:19 AM, Roger M. Woodbury wrote:
> This sounds too good to be true. A perfect solution to an awful problem 
> and I am certain that Audi
> has already angered the Audi gods by thinking about an LPG conversion 
> themselves.


> Now, having said that, it IS the perfect solution to a lot of 
> problems....at least I think so. The
> only issues that I can think of is the fuel delivery problem,



Roger,


(copying this to the list, it is pertinent information)


Up late last night playing on the net with this.


Found a COMPLETE installation manual for one of these systems, 56 page 
illustrated PDF, even in
English, covers *all* details. Google may be awfully nosy about my privacy, 
but they ARE useful.



  the tank location problem,


Forward area of trunk - use 24 gallon horizontal tank. Subframe/bracing/cage 
needed, "certificated"
conversions are supposed to absorb 20G longitudinal, 8G lateral, so can't 
mount the tank with
bungees. This isn't a HUGE problem, one more item on the to-do list.



  the reserve
> tank location and how that would be plumbed,

None.


  and the loss (minor, MAYBE) of additional lubrication
> in the engine.


Some of the UK converters add a top end lube system. Most of them say German 
cars don't need it (but
are happy to install it anyway for more money) because the valve seats are 
harder in German cars.
Problem is (may be) erosion of the valve seats.


> Oh, yes. And the insurance problem. IF there is an insurance problem, of 
> course. I have NO idea how
> insurance companies look at engine or fuel conversion projects in this day 
> and age.

None known. Minor information found that most don't care.

Can't drive through the Chunnel (awwwww) or go on some European car ferries 
(awwwww again). I do
seem to recall a prohibition on the Delaware Bay Bridge regarding compressed 
gasses in tanks, but
that was almost 40 years ago.



> If the choice is between looking at a major fuel system revamping and 
> ripping out the whole system
> and replacing it with an LPG system, and you have the knowledge and 
> patience to do the work, I say,
> GO FOR IT.

It is looking like I will.



> On the other hand, unless the car is near perfect, it might be the end of 
> the road for the poor
> dear...no, no, no. I don’t want to even think about that!


The car is nice - body 99.5% perfect (one or two very, very minor 
dings/stone chips, you really have
to look for them), the interior is 99.5% perfect (not new, but all there and 
untorn, clean,
everything fits, headliner up properly), all systems work (!), no leaks, 
relayed eurolights, A4
wheels with spacers, properly working UFOs, clean, straight car. Fresh 
timing belt and ALL ancillary
parts.


I need to change the radiator (have one) because it is starting to clog, 
I'll change the timing belt
again (timed out, not miles), and if I really wanted to spend some money, 
I'd change the WS because
it is somewhat sand-pocked. And the parking brakes don't work - standard 
equipment.



It appears there are a LOT of conversions running around Euroland. The 
owners appear to be very well
satisfied with them. The "best" (or at least the most expensive - about $3K 
installed - and best
advertised) is by Prinz LPG, and there are several on A8s. Look at 
eBay.co.UK for a lot of parts. It
appears that I'll be able to buy the LPG injector set (pair of 4's) for 
something like $250, the
regulator is another $150, and ebay here has new 25 gallon propane tanks for 
$150ish.

EPA gives a free pass to these PRIVATELY DONE NON-COMMERCIAL OLDER CAR 
conversions as of 4/11 as
long as the emissions from the converted car are lower than the original 
car. That's problem #1, the
original car isn't running, so I have nothing to compare it to. It may be a 
non-problem, we'll see.

EPA also says if the car has OBD-2 it has to work - this one doesn't, I 
think the OBD system is
version 1 (has non-standard connectors), so exempt.


Problem #2 is the pre-heat. Most of the conversions use the gasoline system 
to start the car and get
the water temp up to 50C, whereupon the vaporizer will work. I want to GET 
RID of the gasoline
system entirely, so I'll either need to see how they work this on air cooled 
cars (they've done some
Porsches) or make up a small, electric pre-heater with a couple of tees and 
a thermostat. I have not
decided how to approach that problem yet.

The injectors will be run by a Megasquirt - I have one, and they will run 
LPG injectors, there are
several LPG-fuel successes on the Megasquirt site - fuel mapping is 
different, which is why I need
the MS system and can't run off the stock ECU.



More to follow . . .



Best,

Mike



> Roger