[V8] Pentosin crisis

[dsaad at icehouse.net]

A oil cooler would be a great idea.  All new cars seem to come with them
now.  I put an inline filter on mine many years ago and think it also
helps.

As for oil, I went with Chevron RYKON 32 since it was easily available t
me. At the time it was about $40 for 5 gallons but had gone up
significantly since then. It lasts so long I still have maybe a gallon
left - after several flushes.

Dave

> A lot of debate on this over the years, I personally find pretty amusing
> to reread, again...  The real issue is not the Audi Hydraulic Power
> Steering system mix of 11s and 7,1, but to the other uses of 7.1 and 11S.
> Specifically, the 'non mix' warnings refers to power tops, shock oils, and
> suspension systems....  Where the small variations in viscocity indecies
> can cause 'possible' issue if components are sporting mixed fluids.  THIS
> CONCERN DOES NOT APPLY TO G002000-A2 specification in the Audi power
> steering system.  Hence the reason Audi issued TSB 48-89-T07 issued
> November 89 that clearly states they are 'mix' compatable in 7.1 PS
> systems.  Exactly the reason for no part number change on the top of the
> PS fluid resevoir, they are *equivalent" in every way to the proper
> operation and maintenance of Audi PS systems.
>
>  The idea that the seals go with synthetic is BS, or hoses goes with
> synthetic is also BS.  Because Audi used the same seals in the PS
> systems, hoses and seals for many years beyond the swap from 7.1 to 11S.
> To compare specs:
> 7.1
> http://www.pentosin.net/pressreleases/CRP-116_Pentosin_CHF7-1_V2.pdf
> 11S
> http://www.pentosin.net/pressreleases/CRP-116_Pentosin_CHF11S_V3.pdf
>
> If you were to look specifically on what will break down the hydraulic
> oil, the flash point is probably the best place to start.  Here 11S will
> operate in temps higher than the 7.1 without vaporization/cavitation.
> Interesting to note (to you ATF users) Porsche Factory switched to 11S
> from ATF (no hardware changes) for better low temp and high temp Viscosity
> properties in TSB 9606
> http://www.pcarworkshop.com/images/f/fe/PowerSteering_OIL_1996_640696.pdf
>
> If you really want to improve your hydraulic system performance on your
> Audi, put an aux cooler for the PS fluid.  I've done this to a couple
> Audis, and find the fluid life is much longer, and I suspect the seal/hose
> life is too.  That said, Hydraulic immersed rubber deteriorates over time,
> which is exactly why you can find a good hydraulic hose shop in just about
> every small town USA.  The boys that work tractors and hydraulic
> construction/farm equipment see failures of rubber lines all the time.
>
> IIRC2 7.1 was discontinued in 2007, and any remaining stock (and there is
> a LOT) is available in the aftermarket.  To 11S, that is available in
> several flavors, including from Audi/vw/BMW/Mercedes/Porsche.  However,
> worthy to note 11S is now due to be phased out in favor of CHF 202
> (backwards compatable - Audi G004000)  considered a Long Life Hydraulic
> Mineral oil.
>
> I don't believe a mix of any of these CHF fluids in the power steering
> systems is a problem, as all the performance numbers are well within age
> tolerance numbers of the other offerings.  Want to be careful, pull the
> return line off the resevoir, and drain out the 'old' fluid...  There's 5
> minutes!  That said, putting in 7.1 seems pretty absurd, given how quickly
> the Germans moved away from it starting in 1990.
>
> HTH and my .02
>
> Scott J
> 92 v8 11S
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Acadian Lion <Acadianlion at hotmail.com>
> To: cobram <cobram at juno.com>
> Cc: V8 <V8 at audifans.com>
> Sent: Mon, Mar 18, 2013 5:08 pm
> Subject: Re: [V8] Pentosin crisis
>
>
> I’m going to check with the NAPA store here in town and see what it will
> really
> cost to have them order some in. They told me they CAN get it, and I would
> like
> to see if that is still true.  IF not, perhaps you wouldn’t mind calling
> the
> NAPA store there to see what they might sell some of their old stock
> for...if
> they in fact have any.
>
> My preference is to keep in the car what it has always had and I intend to
> do
> this until I can take the car to the shop and have the system drained
> completely
> and refilled.  That will likely be in May but not until.
>
> Roger
>
> From: cobram at juno.com
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 5:37 PM
> To: Acadianlion at hotmail.com
> Cc: V8 at audifans.com
> Subject: Re: [V8] Pentosin crisis
>
> Audi also says that the transmission must be replaced as a complete unit.
> 11S
> is backward compatible, Napa bought all the 7.1 in bulk when Audi cleared
> it's
> shelves more than 10 years ago, there are  a few bottles on the shelf at
> the
> local Napa, and they look like they've been around longer than the store.
> Mobil
> 1 synthetic transmission fluid is compatible, several people are using it
> with
> no problems.  I haven't put a drop of Pentosin brand anything in any of my
> Audi's or other Teutonic beasts in decades because of the ridiculous price
> and
> the fact that the substitutes work just as well.  Mobil changed the DTE
> designation, these have all been used with no detrimental effects by other
> V8Q
> owners, Chevron and a few others are missing from the list because I have
> never
> seen those here in the North East.
>
> Copied from a previous post on the subject:
>
> Atlantic ISO 10, 32, 46, 68, 100
> BP Bartran 10, 32,Â* 46, 68, 100
> Caltex Rando HD 10, 22, 32, 46, 68, 100
> Castrol Hyspin AWS 10, 32, 46, 68, 100
> Mobil DTE 24, 25, 26, 27
> Shell Tellus 10, 32, 46, 68, 100
> Valvoline Ultramax All Fleet 10W 10, 32, 46, 68, 100
> Ampol Tecoma 10, 32, 46, 68, 100
>
> What's the new Gold Infused steering fluid the dealer peddles going for
> now, $25
> a quart?  Not surprised they're not stocking any fluid for the type 44's
> anymore, as they are more than 10 years old.  I would trust the couple
> hundred
> V8Q and type 44 owners with decades of actual experience more as much as
> any
> tech who might have seen or worked on 2 or 3 V8Q's in his entire career.
> Might
> be the greatest tech in the world, but you know what you work on
> regularly, and
> there's no tech out there anymore who regularly works on V8Q's.  11S and
> 7,1 are
> completely compatible, Audi dealers have only been allowed to restock with
> 11S
> since it came out, and it uses the same part number as in the Audi
> Bulletin I
> quoted.
>
> If it's a religious thing, let me know and I will be happy to check and
> see if
> the local Napa still has the 7.1 on the shelf, if they do I can pick up a
> couple
> quarts for you.  No idea of what they're asking for it, probably around
> $20 a
> can.
>
> BCNU,
> Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes.
>
>
>
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:52:25 -0400 Acadian Lion <Acadianlion at hotmail.com>
> writes:
>   Well, all this information is very interesting in that it is so diverse.
> Standing in the Audi dealer last Friday, I read the label on the current
> Audi
> power steering fluid (which is all they stock), and it specifically states
> on
> the container that it is NOT to be used with CHF 7.1.  They stock no 11S
> nor
> does anyone else I have spoken to from Belfast to Bangor, Maine.  VIP and
> NAPA
> can order 7.1 and VIP will eventually stock 11S once the changeover to
> O’Reilly
> Auto Parts is complete, which is a couple of month.
>
>   The reason I search for 7.1 is because that is what is in my car, which
> was
> built in mid 1989 as a 1990 model. It is also the fluid the Audi dealer
> that I
> do have some trust for, used and was strict in their instructions. The
> service
> manager at that time was the service manager in that store when my car was
> sold
> new, so I had a certain level of trust.  Also, the mechanic in that Audi
> store,
> who was the ONLY Audi dealer tech to have touched my car was trained by
> Audi at
> the time of the V8 rollout.  (Yes, their gray hair was grayer than mine!).
> I
> have NEVER seen 11S on any of the autoparts shelves I have looked for
> here,
> although I have seen 7.1 in VIP and sometime ago, I seem to remember
> seeing it
> in NAPA. We have few other autoparts outlets.
>
>   Roger
>
>
>
>
>
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