[V8] V8 Digest, Vol 132, Issue 1
Joe Fox
2-foxes at centurylink.net
Thu Dec 4 11:19:14 PST 2014
This problem was solved on my '94 by spraying silicon down the shift lever from the top, under the boot, while pushing the lever up & down. Since then it gets a spray about every 6 months. Problem hasn't recurred.
Joe Fox
-----Original Message-----
From: V8 [mailto:v8-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of v8-request at audifans.com
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 11:34 AM
To: v8 at audifans.com
Subject: V8 Digest, Vol 132, Issue 1
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Today's Topics:
1. Key won't release from steering lock (M h)
2. Re: Key won't release from steering lock (Kent McLean)
3. Re: Key won't release from steering lock (toml99 at todomundo.com)
4. Re: Key won't release from steering lock (cobram at juno.com)
5. Re: Key won't release from steering lock (patrick gillen)
6. Re: Key won't release from steering lock (patrick gillen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 10:59:19 +0000
From: M h <av8ruk at hotmail.com>
To: <v8 at audifans.com>
Subject: [V8] Key won't release from steering lock
Message-ID: <DUB127-W2584EBB1F739E4D308283A8C780 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
1993 V8, 4.2
I am resurrecting yet another neglected V8, over here in the UK.
The ignition lock has 2 problems. The big one being that I can no longer remove the key. I've jiggled with the shift lever, between park, drive, neutral, etc. A problem with the ignition lock solenoid?
The other issue is that the key doesn't move from the 'start' position to the 'run' position when starting the engine. It can be moved manually, though.
Are these two separate issues, or part of the same problem?
If you are interested, I'm running a thread with pictures on both AudiV8.com and Classic-Audi.co.uk.
This car is named the toxic toad.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 07:43:27 -0500
From: Kent McLean <kentmclean at comcast.net>
To: v8 at audifans.com
Subject: Re: [V8] Key won't release from steering lock
Message-ID: <548056EF.3020205 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
M h wrote:
> 1993 V8, 4.2
> I am resurrecting yet another neglected V8, over here in the UK.
> The ignition lock has 2 problems. The big one being that I can no longer remove the key. I've jiggled with the shift lever, between park, drive, neutral, etc. A problem with the ignition lock solenoid?
> The other issue is that the key doesn't move from the 'start' position to the 'run' position when starting the engine. It can be moved manually, though.
>
> Are these two separate issues, or part of the same problem?
The second issue, key not returning to run, is definitely an ignition switch issue. I've heard of cases where the starter continues to grind, burning out the starter and sometimes destroying the flywheel teeth because you don't notice the key hasn't sprung back to the run position.
Replace the ignition switch. You'll probably find a plastic collar where the two parts (electrical half and key half) mate is broken.
As for removing the key, I recall a similar situation on a '94 100 I had. IIRC, jiggling things eventually got it out. I think sideways pressure on the shift lever (left or right) while in park worked the magic.
--
Kent McLean
'02 VW Beetle TDI, and a lot of former Audis including Bad Puppy
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 09:10:12 -0800
From: "toml99 at todomundo.com" <toml99 at todomundo.com>
To: v8audi <v8 at audifans.com>
Subject: Re: [V8] Key won't release from steering lock
Message-ID: <5D373EEF-98FA-4C99-9559-3EE52605719B at todomundo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
I'm guessing that the key removal problem is in the mechanical
tumbler part of the lock which leads me to a question for those that
have done it. I recently parted out the complete dash that was
taking up space in my spare bedroom for the last few years. I
removed the whole lock assembly by removing the allen screw, but seem
to recall you need to drill a hole somewhere to actually remove the
tumbler. I ended up removing the steering column support to get
enough room to wiggle this out sideways. The pic shows the 2 small
screws that hold the ignition switch on. Hope this helps the Toxic
Toad....Tom
http://tinyurl.com/k2qstgd
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 12:49:24 -0500
From: <cobram at juno.com>
To: av8ruk at hotmail.com
Cc: v8 at audifans.com
Subject: Re: [V8] Key won't release from steering lock
Message-ID: <AABLJBHZJAK6GLEJ at smtpout04.vgs.untd.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I seem to recall that unlike the early models, the '93 had a cable going
to the ignition tumbler which would cause the key sticking problem.
If you are going to remove the tumber/key assembly along with the switch,
here is a repost of a post I put up on the list more years ago then I'd
like to remember.
At the time I wrote this I had not actually done the simple procedure at
the bottom of the post, but afterwards I have done it twice (this MAY be
a problem part, but Audi never admitted it.) The only thing I would add
is to be extra careful when cutting the collar in the car, I let the
cutting wheel on the whizzer slip when doing the tumbler in V8Q #2 and
scratched up the steering column collar a bit.
Throwback Thursday re-post:
A few observations that will save lots of time and cursing. I had to
change the lock cylinder because the tab on the back which goes into and
turns the ignition switch had broken off.
This job is relatively easy, especially when you IGNORE most of the
procedure in the manual. I removed and replaced the ignition lock, and
only needed to get the kickpanel, cluster, top half of column plastic and
the dashpad out of the way.
I did NOT remove the Airbag, Column Switches, Console, Trim, Steering
Wheel, Glovebox and the rest of the complex scenario I had envisioned
necessary for removing the aluminum crossbrace.
With the parts in the second sentence out, through the aluminum
crossbrace you can get at the two small screws on top and the plug on the
back to pull out the ignition switch (plastic part.). Have a mirror
ready.
I removed the few screws holding on the wood trim on the left side (wood
that goes around lock) too, so I could pull it forward (did not remove it
completely.) Took the anti-theft torx screw out of ignition lock.
Removed the two lock nuts from the retaining plate on the floor, down by
the firewall that hold the steering column to the rack bushing.
Removed the two bolts with the captive nuts (one had a bracket and relay
attached to it.)
Removed the three side bolts and the four top bolts on the column that
hold it to the aluminum crossbrace, pulled the column forward a bit to
easily separate the column (mark the column position on the bushing so
you can put it back the same way), then put the column shaft to the left
and high of where it attaches to the bushing. This way the column could
be pushed in (with some body weight behind it) enough so that the
steering lock could be pulled out and turned to clear the aluminum brace
to come out.
After removing the tumbler mechanism from the rest of the steering lock
assembly, (drilled hole etc. as per manual) I put just the steering lock
part back first to make things easy, and pushed the new tumbler part in
after the steering lock was installed. This way you can put something in
the tumbler hole of the steering lock to hold the steel locking bar to
the right while installing.
If you've read this far, this is a payoff here......by doing it the hard
way, the easy method revealed itself. Did not do it on the car of
course, but a bench test with the old lock worked. If you cut the
black collar that goes around the ignition key cylinder (you'll need a
small whizzer, dremel tool or something of the sort), you'll be able to
reach the spring that holds the lock cylinder in the steering lock and
push it down with a piece of flat hard metal, a lock pick iron worked for
me. Once this spring is pushed down the key tumbler will pull out, no
need to do anything more except push in the new piece! Man, I could have
avoided all the above work. The most you'll have to do is remove a
couple of screws and pull the wood trim back so you won't damage it while
cutting off the black collar. You will ruin the old tumbler this way,
but if this is the part you're changing it's a moot point.
>From what I could see, you cannot re-key the new lock tumbler assembly,
so you're stuck with two keys until you get around to re-keying the other
locks. Total time was around 4 hours, most of that spent figuring out
what held what where and who was on first. The new lock cylinder from
the dealer (Mac at Clair) was $54.00.
BCNU,
Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes.
<av8ruk at hotmail.com> writes:
> 1993 V8, 4.2
> I am resurrecting yet another neglected V8, over here in the UK.
> The ignition lock has 2 problems. The big one being that I can no
> longer remove the key. I've jiggled with the shift lever, between
> park, drive, neutral, etc. A problem with the ignition lock
> solenoid?
> The other issue is that the key doesn't move from the 'start'
> position to the 'run' position when starting the engine. It can be
> moved manually, though.
>
> Are these two separate issues, or part of the same problem?
>
> If you are interested, I'm running a thread with pictures on both
> AudiV8.com and Classic-Audi.co.uk.
> This car is named the toxic toad.
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 09:58:23 -0800
From: patrick gillen <pat_gillen at msn.com>
To: <v8 at audifans.com>
Subject: Re: [V8] Key won't release from steering lock
Message-ID: <BLU180-DS4D7BA768F1277E1C9552BFA780 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I replaced my 90 V8Q failed ignition lock & switch 3 years back and there was not a lock solenoid at the switch. There is a mechanical steering wheel lock function by a sliding-to-the-left cam-actuated link from inside the lock housing. There is an electrical interlock circuit preventing starter activation depending on the shifter position.
Key removal: the lock has internals that release the key depending on the steering wheel lock sliding link being in the wheel lock position. Either your link is bad (somebody torque the wheel to break it and only bent it?) or the lock internals or cam have failed. When you get it all apart, if the sliding link looks like my picture inside the lock housing and you can manually slide it easily to the wheel lock position the lock guts are the culprit.
Switch: I agree the electrical switch is bad as it has the starter position spring return which is known to fail. You can get the switch out without removing the lock. Look for failure at the lock shaft to the switch as mine was also broken.
Lock removal: hardest part after unearthing everything was getting the lock out. There is a 1/4 circumference black keeper spring on the lock exterior that keys into a circumferential slot in the lock housing; the spring needs to be depressed to get the lock out. I could not see any way to insert something past the black key trim ring to depress that spring. If anyone knows how to get that trim ring off please share, but it is probably not removable by design or your car could be easily stolen. I think the book wanted you to remove the aluminum frame but I drew the line and drilled a hole in the frame to be able to then drill a hole in the lock housing (which is per the book) and finally depress the spring keeper holding the lock in. Drill carefully though as you can see I nicked my lock but I had to replace it anyway as the shaft was broken. Rube Goldberg advises against my method as the better way is to bite the bullet and remove the AL frame which allows you to remove the whole lock and switch assembly as toml99 shows in his pics. Then you can drill the housing more precisely on the bench to get the spring depressed for the tumbler set removal. Audi engineering is still laughing on this one.
I just posted pictures of my lock removal at
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3IdtItm9HUhNmZVNjVCeXFtWkE&usp=sharing
Pat
______________________________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: V8 [mailto:v8-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of toml99 at todomundo.com
Sent: December 04, 2014 9:10 AM
To: v8audi
Subject: Re: [V8] Key won't release from steering lock
I'm guessing that the key removal problem is in the mechanical tumbler part of the lock which leads me to a question for those that have done it. I recently parted out the complete dash that was taking up space in my spare bedroom for the last few years. I removed the whole lock assembly by removing the allen screw, but seem to recall you need to drill a hole somewhere to actually remove the tumbler. I ended up removing the steering column support to get enough room to wiggle this out sideways. The pic shows the 2 small screws that hold the ignition switch on. Hope this helps the Toxic Toad....Tom
http://tinyurl.com/k2qstgd
_______________________________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: V8 [mailto:v8-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of Kent McLean
Sent: December 04, 2014 4:43 AM
To: v8 at audifans.com
Subject: Re: [V8] Key won't release from steering lock
M h wrote:
> 1993 V8, 4.2
> I am resurrecting yet another neglected V8, over here in the UK.
> The ignition lock has 2 problems. The big one being that I can no longer remove the key. I've jiggled with the shift lever, between park, drive, neutral, etc. A problem with the ignition lock solenoid?
> The other issue is that the key doesn't move from the 'start' position to the 'run' position when starting the engine. It can be moved manually, though.
>
> Are these two separate issues, or part of the same problem?
The second issue, key not returning to run, is definitely an ignition switch issue. I've heard of cases where the starter continues to grind, burning out the starter and sometimes destroying the flywheel teeth because you don't notice the key hasn't sprung back to the run position.
Replace the ignition switch. You'll probably find a plastic collar where the two parts (electrical half and key half) mate is broken.
As for removing the key, I recall a similar situation on a '94 100 I had. IIRC, jiggling things eventually got it out. I think sideways pressure on the shift lever (left or right) while in park worked the magic.
--
Kent McLean
'02 VW Beetle TDI, and a lot of former Audis including Bad Puppy
-----Original Message-----
From: V8 [mailto:v8-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of M h
Sent: December 04, 2014 2:59 AM
To: v8 at audifans.com
Subject: [V8] Key won't release from steering lock
1993 V8, 4.2
I am resurrecting yet another neglected V8, over here in the UK.
The ignition lock has 2 problems. The big one being that I can no longer remove the key. I've jiggled with the shift lever, between park, drive, neutral, etc. A problem with the ignition lock solenoid?
The other issue is that the key doesn't move from the 'start' position to the 'run' position when starting the engine. It can be moved manually, though.
Are these two separate issues, or part of the same problem?
If you are interested, I'm running a thread with pictures on both AudiV8.com and Classic-Audi.co.uk.
This car is named the toxic toad.
_______________________________________________
Audifans V8 mailing list
Send posts to: mailto:V8 at audifans.com
Manage your list connection: http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/v8
You can help keep the audifans site running by shopping at http://audifans.com/shop/
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 10:32:01 -0800
From: patrick gillen <pat_gillen at msn.com>
To: <v8 at audifans.com>
Subject: Re: [V8] Key won't release from steering lock
Message-ID: <BLU180-DS15E6C2D5BD25D9B039AACDFA780 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Excellent suggestion, cutting that tumbler trim collar! A tricky cut but a real timesaver; I wish I had found your post back then to shave mandays off the job.
-----Original Message-----
From: V8 [mailto:v8-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of cobram at juno.com
Sent: December 04, 2014 9:49 AM
To: av8ruk at hotmail.com
Cc: v8 at audifans.com
Subject: Re: [V8] Key won't release from steering lock
I seem to recall that unlike the early models, the '93 had a cable going to the ignition tumbler which would cause the key sticking problem.
If you are going to remove the tumber/key assembly along with the switch, here is a repost of a post I put up on the list more years ago then I'd like to remember.
At the time I wrote this I had not actually done the simple procedure at the bottom of the post, but afterwards I have done it twice (this MAY be a problem part, but Audi never admitted it.) The only thing I would add is to be extra careful when cutting the collar in the car, I let the cutting wheel on the whizzer slip when doing the tumbler in V8Q #2 and scratched up the steering column collar a bit.
Throwback Thursday re-post:
A few observations that will save lots of time and cursing. I had to change the lock cylinder because the tab on the back which goes into and turns the ignition switch had broken off.
This job is relatively easy, especially when you IGNORE most of the procedure in the manual. I removed and replaced the ignition lock, and only needed to get the kickpanel, cluster, top half of column plastic and the dashpad out of the way.
I did NOT remove the Airbag, Column Switches, Console, Trim, Steering Wheel, Glovebox and the rest of the complex scenario I had envisioned necessary for removing the aluminum crossbrace.
With the parts in the second sentence out, through the aluminum crossbrace you can get at the two small screws on top and the plug on the back to pull out the ignition switch (plastic part.). Have a mirror ready.
I removed the few screws holding on the wood trim on the left side (wood that goes around lock) too, so I could pull it forward (did not remove it
completely.) Took the anti-theft torx screw out of ignition lock.
Removed the two lock nuts from the retaining plate on the floor, down by the firewall that hold the steering column to the rack bushing.
Removed the two bolts with the captive nuts (one had a bracket and relay attached to it.) Removed the three side bolts and the four top bolts on the column that hold it to the aluminum crossbrace, pulled the column forward a bit to easily separate the column (mark the column position on the bushing so you can put it back the same way), then put the column shaft to the left and high of where it attaches to the bushing. This way the column could be pushed in (with some body weight behind it) enough so that the steering lock could be pulled out and turned to clear the aluminum brace to come out.
After removing the tumbler mechanism from the rest of the steering lock assembly, (drilled hole etc. as per manual) I put just the steering lock part back first to make things easy, and pushed the new tumbler part in after the steering lock was installed. This way you can put something in the tumbler hole of the steering lock to hold the steel locking bar to the right while installing.
If you've read this far, this is a payoff here......by doing it the hard way, the easy method revealed itself. Did not do it on the car of
course, but a bench test with the old lock worked. If you cut the
black collar that goes around the ignition key cylinder (you'll need a small whizzer, dremel tool or something of the sort), you'll be able to reach the spring that holds the lock cylinder in the steering lock and push it down with a piece of flat hard metal, a lock pick iron worked for me. Once this spring is pushed down the key tumbler will pull out, no need to do anything more except push in the new piece! Man, I could have avoided all the above work. The most you'll have to do is remove a couple of screws and pull the wood trim back so you won't damage it while cutting off the black collar. You will ruin the old tumbler this way, but if this is the part you're changing it's a moot point.
>From what I could see, you cannot re-key the new lock tumbler assembly, so you're stuck with two keys until you get around to re-keying the other locks. Total time was around 4 hours, most of that spent figuring out
what held what where and who was on first. The new lock cylinder from
the dealer (Mac at Clair) was $54.00.
BCNU,
Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes.
<av8ruk at hotmail.com> writes:
> 1993 V8, 4.2
> I am resurrecting yet another neglected V8, over here in the UK.
> The ignition lock has 2 problems. The big one being that I can no
> longer remove the key. I've jiggled with the shift lever, between
> park, drive, neutral, etc. A problem with the ignition lock solenoid?
> The other issue is that the key doesn't move from the 'start'
> position to the 'run' position when starting the engine. It can be
> moved manually, though.
>
> Are these two separate issues, or part of the same problem?
>
> If you are interested, I'm running a thread with pictures on both
> AudiV8.com and Classic-Audi.co.uk.
> This car is named the toxic toad.
>
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