[V8] This may be too far out even for me....

[Roger M. Woodbury]

Well, Dave,  you might be right about at least some of it. But you're 
not about some of the rest.

I have NO intention of replacing the V8 now, nor in the near future.  
The V8 is fine, runs very well and is exactly what we need for the 
majority of what we need to do on a daily basis.

Rather it is the 1994 100 Avant Quattro that is resting and awaiting 
developments.  That car also runs exceptionally well, at 213,000 or so 
miles.  Right now we do not NEED a station wagon, although beginning at 
some point we will likely again need the carrying capacity.

My meanderings were centered around doing the necessary restorations 
that the Avant needs to be able to continue its useful life into the 
350,000 mile range.  In order to do that the car will need to be 
cosmetically restored and at a minimum, the engine will need to be 
removed from the car and resealed. The rest of the stuff is small change.

BUT if the engine was out, I was wondering how much it might take to 
substitute a 3.6 litre V8 from, say a 90 V8 Quattro. This has been done 
numerous times, but ALL of the swaps that have been done have been to 
"enhance" the performance of the car, which means satisfy the "boy 
racer" urge in someone who wants to go vroom-vroom.  I know of only one 
Avant/V8 conversation that was done merely to enhance the basic 
performance of the car and that was (I think) a front wheel drive Type 
44 that had a 3.6 put into it some years ago.  To my knowledge no one 
has done a V8 conversation into an automatic Quattro Avant.

So, the first question would be, would the V8 with ZF transmission fit 
within the space available without extensive body or driveshaft 
modification?  Would the ZF transaxle fit in the C4 at all?  Failing 
that, would the V8 bolt to the bell housing of the existing C4 automatic 
transmission?

Either way, the engine management system would need to change 
obviously.  I already know that that poses no issue for my mechanic, so 
it's dooable. Cost is unknown at this point.

The 3.6 (or 4.2 V8) from the D11 (Type 44) cars WILL fit without 
modification and engine/transmission mounts are available for the V8 
conversion in several forms at reasonable cost.

Right now I have no idea how the a/c compressors and other stuff will 
actually be worked out, but that is a requirement if this project were 
undertaken:  the completed project must equal the original V6 engined 
car in terms of function.  This might well spell the end of the entire 
project, but it is as yet undertermined.

I suspect it will take some time to figure all the various cost angles 
of parts for the swap. But I am not planning anything other than a 
straight swap. No special "enhancements" or special, "imported from some 
gnome's hut in the Black Forest" gizzies.  Even the 100 CS brakes will 
remain as they are certainly adequate for the performance the car will 
be asked to deliver.
  I will be using S4 wheels and tires because I have a bunch of those 
already, and I suspect the car might well like a bit bigger footprint 
given the increase of at least 70 horses.

Now, you have suggested I "move into this century" and consider 
something else.  I have considered ALL of the new (er) Audis and have 
largely discounted ALL of them as something I'd care to have:  I do not 
believe Audi is building quality automobiles any more in their rush to 
compete with BMW and Mercedes.  Certainly a 3.0 A6 is out as the litany 
of issues that have plagued that engine from its introduction makes it 
untrustworthy for me, beginning with the coil packs: if they haven't 
failed once or twice already in any given car, they WILL soon.

I have had a wicked fascination with the Allroad, and have now 
completely discarded that from my list. The V8 Allroad suffers complete 
engine failure every sixty thousand miles or so, unless the engine is 
removed and the timing chains rebuilt with all tensioners and plastic 
(!) chain followers and guides at the SLIGHTEST sign of the death rattle 
at engine start.  IF I could buy a V8 Allroad that had just had the 
chains overhauled and could document its service history since delivery, 
I might consider buying the car for around $3500, assuming less than 
65,000 miles. But in my opinion, that is ALL the money.

The 2.7 Turbo Allroad has quite a following. Right up until one turbo 
fails and if it hasn't happened YET, then it WILL happen soon.  This is 
not a repair I have any interest in doing personally, so the twin turbo 
engine is to me, nothing more than a marketing plow to give Audi some 
sort of "leg-up" over the BMW5 series wagons.  Not for me.

So the only viable option, should we decide to replace the Avant with 
another wagon type vehicle, is a low mileage, one owner Mercedes 4-matic 
with documented service history. Those cars Do exist and are quite 
plentiful

But my '94 Avant does everything they will do, and for the cost of one, 
the question that I am going to answer, even if in the negative as you 
suggest, Dave, is:  Can I accomplish what I need to accomplish for a 
price somewhere south of what that phantom Mercedes wagon would cost?

Sometimes an Audi in hand is worth more than a Mercedes in the bush.

Roger (just call me Mr. Senility)


On 1/17/2017 5:59 PM, Dave Saad wrote:
> You are really getting senile and out of touch Roger!
>
> There. Someone had to do it.
>
> If you were doing the work yourself then nothing is out of bounds or even "silly". It is your time and money.
> On the other hand if you have to pay the going shop rate for this then just go buy a newer specimen. You will be better off in the long run. As much as I miss my V8, and even though I am convinced it was better in the snow than the allroad - I don't like the ESP system, I would not go backwards. The benefits of the allroad are way better parts availability, plenty of power, plenty of room and comfort, great headlights, modern A/C (R134a), better stereo, better safety equipment, (air bags have a shelf life...) and the list goes on. A vanilla A6 would do you just fine without the air suspension or turbo problems, but to be honest the 2.7l seems pretty bulletproof, and the transmission and suspension problems are easily fixed - for not crazy amounts of money. The transmission parts are readily available and reasonably priced.
> I say at least jump into this century, if not this decade.
> You need a reliable ride. If you want to play, do that with something American. Swapping motors in a Ford is easy and cheap.
> Any hillbilly can pull that one off🤓
>
> Dave
>
> Btw, we are having a record snow year, and I have been working my air suspension pretty hard. It has been fantastic for me.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>