[V8] This may be too far out even for me....

[Dave Saad]

I guess what I was driving at was find a nice A6 wagon with a 2.8l. They seem to hold up very nicely. In fact I just bought my kids a 1998 A6 as their collage car. It's not a power house but I like it overall. It is a nice ride. I did have to replace a timing chain tensioner though. I did it myself with a used part for about $30. Fairly common problem I guess. The car I ended up with has WAY more miles on it than I thought when I bought it, ( I am guessing well over 200k) but the body and interior are nice and it runs good. They make the trip from salt lake to boise often and I don't worry.
I have had no trouble finding parts for it.

And I am also not suggesting you get rid of the V8. In fact quite the opposite. Drive it and enjoy it while you can. You already know this car has no equal. When it becomes too unreliable or expensive to maintain then move on to the next great thing. I will put another plug in for a 2.7L allroad though. I know of several that have gone well over 200k miles without serious trouble. I do think you would enjoy one. I sure do.

Dave
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 17, 2017, at 6:46 PM, Roger M. Woodbury <rmwoodbury at fairpoint.net> wrote:
> 
> Well, Dave,  you might be right about at least some of it. But you're not about some of the rest.
> 
> I have NO intention of replacing the V8 now, nor in the near future.  The V8 is fine, runs very well and is exactly what we need for the majority of what we need to do on a daily basis.
> 
> Rather it is the 1994 100 Avant Quattro that is resting and awaiting developments.  That car also runs exceptionally well, at 213,000 or so miles.  Right now we do not NEED a station wagon, although beginning at some point we will likely again need the carrying capacity. 
> 
> My meanderings were centered around doing the necessary restorations that the Avant needs to be able to continue its useful life into the 350,000 mile range.  In order to do that the car will need to be cosmetically restored and at a minimum, the engine will need to be removed from the car and resealed.  The rest of the stuff is small change.  
> 
> BUT if the engine was out, I was wondering how much it might take to substitute a 3.6 litre V8 from, say a 90 V8 Quattro.  This has been done numerous times, but ALL of the swaps that have been done have been to "enhance" the performance of the car, which means satisfy the "boy racer" urge in someone who wants to go vroom-vroom.  I know of only one Avant/V8 conversation that was done merely to enhance the basic performance of the car and that was (I think) a front wheel         drive Type 44 that had a 3.6 put into it some years ago.  To my knowledge no one has done a V8 conversation into an automatic Quattro Avant.
> 
> So, the first question would be, would the V8 with ZF transmission fit within the space available without extensive body or driveshaft modification?  Would the ZF transaxle fit in the C4 at all?  Failing that, would the V8 bolt to the bell housing of the existing C4 automatic transmission?
> 
> Either way, the engine management system would need to change obviously.  I already know that that poses no issue for my mechanic, so it's dooable. Cost is unknown at this point.
> 
> The 3.6 (or 4.2 V8) from the D11 (Type 44) cars WILL fit without modification and engine/transmission mounts are available for the V8 conversion in several forms at reasonable cost.
> 
> Right now I have no idea how the a/c compressors and other stuff will actually be worked out, but that is a requirement if this project were undertaken:  the completed project must equal the original V6 engined car in terms of function.  This might well spell the end of the entire project, but it is as yet undertermined.
> 
> I suspect it will take some time to figure all the various cost angles of parts for the swap. But I am not planning anything other than a straight swap. No special "enhancements" or special, "imported from some gnome's hut in the Black Forest" gizzies.  Even the 100 CS brakes will remain as they are certainly adequate for the performance the car will be asked to deliver.
>  I will be using S4 wheels and tires because I have a bunch of those already, and I suspect the car might well like a bit bigger footprint given the increase of at least 70 horses.
> 
> Now, you have suggested I "move into this century" and consider something else.  I have considered ALL of the new (er) Audis and have largely discounted ALL of them as something I'd care to have:  I do not believe Audi is building quality automobiles any more in their rush to compete with BMW and Mercedes.  Certainly a 3.0 A6 is out as the litany of issues that have plagued that engine from its introduction makes it untrustworthy for me, beginning with the coil packs: if they haven't failed once or twice already in any given car, they WILL soon.  
> 
> I have had a wicked fascination with the Allroad, and have now completely discarded that from my list. The V8 Allroad suffers complete engine failure every sixty thousand miles or so, unless the engine is removed and the timing chains rebuilt with all tensioners and plastic (!) chain followers and guides at the SLIGHTEST sign of the death rattle at engine start.  IF I could buy a V8 Allroad that had just had the chains overhauled and could document its service history since delivery, I might consider buying the car for around $3500, assuming less than 65,000 miles. But in my opinion, that is ALL the money.
> 
> The 2.7 Turbo Allroad has quite a following. Right up until one turbo fails and if it hasn't happened YET, then it WILL happen soon.  This is not a repair I have any interest in doing personally, so the twin turbo engine is to me, nothing more than a marketing plow to give Audi some sort of "leg-up" over the BMW5 series wagons.  Not for me.
> 
> So the only viable option, should we decide to replace the Avant with another wagon type vehicle, is a low mileage, one owner Mercedes 4-matic with documented service history. Those cars Do exist and are quite plentiful  
> 
> But my '94 Avant does everything they will do, and for the cost of one, the question that I am going to answer, even if in the negative as you suggest, Dave, is:  Can I accomplish what I need to accomplish for a price somewhere south of what that phantom Mercedes wagon would cost?  
> 
> Sometimes an Audi in hand is worth more than a Mercedes in the bush.
> 
> Roger (just call me Mr. Senility)
> 
> 
>> On 1/17/2017 5:59 PM, Dave Saad wrote:
>> You are really getting senile and out of touch Roger!
>> 
>> There. Someone had to do it.
>> 
>> If you were doing the work yourself then nothing is out of bounds or even "silly". It is your time and money. 
>> On the other hand if you have to pay the going shop rate for this then just go buy a newer specimen. You will be better off in the long run. As much as I miss my V8, and even though I am convinced it was better in the snow than the allroad - I don't like the ESP system, I would not go backwards. The benefits of the allroad are way better parts availability, plenty of power, plenty of room and comfort, great headlights, modern A/C (R134a), better stereo, better safety equipment, (air bags have a shelf life...) and the list goes on. A vanilla A6 would do you just fine without the air suspension or turbo problems, but to be honest the 2.7l seems pretty bulletproof, and the transmission and suspension problems are easily fixed - for not crazy amounts of money. The transmission parts are readily available and reasonably priced.
>> I say at least jump into this century, if not this decade.
>> You need a reliable ride. If you want to play, do that with something American. Swapping motors in a Ford is easy and cheap. 
>> Any hillbilly can pull that one off🤓
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> Btw, we are having a record snow year, and I have been working my air suspension pretty hard. It has been fantastic for me.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>