[Vwdiesel] Turbo vs. Non-turbo [was My TURBO test (more scientific)]

[gary]

Here's my $0.02...

TD will get less MPG because of the "joy" factor!

You just love keeping the turbine spooled up all of the time and enjoy
the power!

-Gary


On Tue, 2003-04-08 at 13:09, Nate Wall wrote:
> My take on this:
>
> I've heard turbos increase efficiency by extracting
> some of the heat energy/gas expansion from exhaust
> gasses. In our case, I believe the economies of fuel
> usage of the VW TD vs NA to be almost identical. I
> tend to believe that driven really hard, a TD will use
> a little more fuel, because it is capable of being
> driven faster easier, which increases fuel usage due
> to greater wind drag. Driven gently they should be the
> same. I think that SAE paper Roger B./ posted on his
> site gives the fuel consumption amounts in grams per
> KW-Hr. and it states they are the same as the NA.
> I believe the overall cost of the TD to be more,
> though, because of the possible need to rebuild the
> turbo, etc. Mine's been rebuilt twice at a total cost
> of about $900, plus a $75 oil line from VW (The turbo
> rebuilder said no warranty offered if the line was not
> replaced--BS I thought). I think the life of both
> motors are about the same.
>
> --Nate
>
>
> --- greg rich <greg4vwparts at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Tyler
> > I have to disagree with your statement about turbos
> > increasing fuel economy.
> > They only increase fuel economy UNDER FULL LOAD.
> > Hence, if you drive  your
> > cars or trucks hard, a turbo will increase your
> > economy. Similar with all
> > big rigs, they are under heavy load all the time and
> > a turbo increases the
> > engines efficiency. Under light loads however the
> > turbo is awful! Take for
> > example two 1986 Jettas, a straight diesel is
> > capable of (imp gallon, 4.54
> > liters) 75-80 mpg going 90 km/h (55 mph) on a
> > straight road, a turbo one
> > however will never see better then 70 mpg. If you
> > increase the speed to 110
> > kmh (70 mph) the na diesel would get 60 mpg, the
> > turbo around 65mpg. Because
> > the na diesel is working so much harder it is using
> > more fuel, the turbo
> > engine is able to use the fuel more effectively. The
> > turbo engine does not
> > breath nearly as well as a na diesel due to the
> > intake piping etc.
> > I have owned MANY (12) VW diesels all Jettas diesel
> > and turbo diesel. I have
> > also owned many Mercedes diesels and a Toyota truck
> > td. We also have two
> > Jetta TDIs in the family. I have been able to
> > consistently get 70+ mpg from
> > na diesel VWs, never from the turbos under the same
> > conditions, but if I am
> > in a hurry I know which car will be better. Now, the
> > TDIs are another story,
> > both are automatic and neither get anywhere near the
> > economy one would
> > expect, so far the best is 61mpg going to Florida at
> > 60mph (I made it to
> > Orlando FLA from Ottawa ON Canada on one fill up,
> > 2500 kms, left with a full
> > tank). I was hoping for much more but never got it,
> > and I never used the a/c
> > or other power robbers. It barely got better then
> > the gov rating of 59 mpg.
> > The same gov rating that said the 1.6 would only get
> > high 50s yet I get way
> > more. Anyways, enough babbling, I have never found
> > the turbo to increase
> > economy giving my driving style, it is useful in the
> > mountains and if your
> > in a rush, but not at the pumps in your average
> > drive going the speed limit.
> > Towing of course, (though I would never subject the
> > general population to
> > towing with one of my diesels)  would be another
> > story, here a turbo is
> > necessary- I have a big ol Lincoln for that (460 CI
> > of gas burning power).
> > Greg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: vwdiesel-request at vwfans.com
> > >Reply-To: vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> > >To: vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> > >Subject: vwiesel digest, Vol 1 #538 - 8 msgs
> > >Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:22:58 -0400
> > >
> > >Send vwdiesel mailing list submissions to
> > >	vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> > >
> > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
> > visit
> > >	http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
> > >or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> > 'help' to
> > >	vwdiesel-request at vwfans.com
> > >
> > >You can reach the person managing the list at
> > >	vwdiesel-admin at vwfans.com
> > >
> > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> > is more specific
> > >than "Re: Contents of vwdiesel digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > >Today's Topics:
> > >
> > >    1. turbo testing (Mark Kostreva)
> > >    2. RE: Turbo vs. Non-turbo [was My TURBO test
> > (more
> > >        scientific)] (James Hansen)
> > >    3. 2 way radio antenna placement (Val
> > Christian)
> > >    4. Re: Turbo vs. Non-turbo [was My TURBO test
> > (more scientific)] (Tyler
> > >"Casioqv" Backman)
> > >    5. RE: Diesel   Hagar  the third person ??? .
> > (Shirley, Mark R)
> > >    6. RE: Turbo vs. Non-turbo [was My TURBO test
> > (more scien
> > >        tific)] (Shirley, Mark R)
> > >
> > >--__--__--
> > >
> > >Message: 1
> > >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 03 03:46:30 -0400
> > >From: Mark Kostreva <flstgla at hubcap.clemson.edu>
> > >To: <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>, <ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca>
> > >Subject: [Vwdiesel] turbo testing
> > >
> > >Your accelerator cable may be misadjusted. Get a
> > friend to push the
> > >pedal, and make sure that when you floor it, the
> > springloaded arm on the
> > >pump hits the stop, including pressing the little
> > bellows part at the end
> > >of the travel. This made a big difference for me.
> > >
> > >Mark
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > >If the turbo really does THAT much (I have no idea
> > myself WHAT kind of
> > >diff=
> > >erence I should be experiencing) I should "see" a
> > decrease in
> > >power/torqe/r=
> > >evs or SOME type of effect shouldn't I ?
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > >--__--__--
> > >
> > >Message: 2
> > >Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 01:57:31 -0600
> > >From: James Hansen <jhsg at sk.sympatico.ca>
> > >Subject: RE: [Vwdiesel] Turbo vs. Non-turbo [was My
> > TURBO test (more
> > >  scientific)]
> > >To: Vwdiesel <vwdiesel at audifans.com>
> > >
> > > > Please correct me if I am wrong about any of the
> > below. I have also
> > > > noticed another very significant difference
> > above and beyond the
> > > > horsepower/torque increase when turbocharging a
> > diesel, as I own 4
> > > > diesel vehicles, a turbo and non-turbo 6.2l
> > suburban, and a turbo and
> > > > non-turbo 2.4l (VW engine) volvo. A turbocharged
> > diesel responds much
> > > > more like a gasoline car, because the
> > turbocharger spins up quicker than
> > > > the engine, and causes the motor to rev much
> > more freely, and is able to
> > > > utilize more throttle without just converting
> > the extra fuel to soot. On
> > > > a mechanically injected non-turbo diesel at
> > lower rpms there is a point
> > > > (between half-full) throttle where more throttle
> > just makes it smoke
> > > > more, but won't put out more power, because
> > there is no more air. A
> > > > Turbo Diesel seems to produce maximum boost only
> > at full throttle at
> > > > these rpms, and will therefore respond to the
> > entire range of throttle
> > > > input, just like a gasoline engine with a
> > throttle body.
> > >
> > >Not really.  It is dependant on a number of
> > factors.  TIming, fuel
> > >settings,
> > >boost enrichment, camshaft design which dictates at
> > what rpm your torque
> > >and
> > >hp will peak, etc. Mine makes full boost any time
> > you press on the pedal.
> > >It's all in the setup.
> > >
> > >  A non-turbo
> > > > diesel revs and responds so slowly, that I think
> > under a light enough
> > > > load, a gasoline engine with less horsepower
> > would outperform it
> > >
> > >
> > >Depends on the definition of perform. Quarter mile
> > times or how far you go
> > >on a gallon of fuel. The diesel will win the latter
> > hands down.
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
> http://tax.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> vwdiesel mailing list
> vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel