[Vwdiesel] IDI vs TDI cars (was droppings #96)

[Val Christian]

You're digging your heels in Hagar.  The 2003 Jetta TDI is nicer in the
following ways:

	-electronically available information
		-fuel flow
		-torque
		-tons more
	-lots of power
	-lots of torque, hence lower RPM for a given speed compared
	 with my 1991 IDI diesel engine
	-better performance at high DENALT
	-car interior at least 15 db quieter at 75 MPH cruise
	
The same car is not so nice in the following ways:

	-order of magnitude increase in complexity 
		-computerized vs. mechanical fuel control
		-blown engine vs. normally aspirated
	-heavy dependence on electrical power / electronics
		-long term risk with repairs and old age service
		-increased risk in RF/EMP/lightening strike areas
		-more than insignificant electric needs when running
		 (especially after cold WX starts)
	-car handling really sucks compared to 1991 Jetta
		-camber non-adjustable (you get what you get)
		-higher caster creates a more unstable front end
		 (higher maintenance driving in gusty crosswinds)
	-maintenance less flexible
		-turbo requires synthetic oil, fewer choices
		-oil change requires lower cowling removal
	-seats inferior to anything I've had in a VW diesel, including
	 low-end Rabbits
	-damn running lights don't turn off if you need them off

>From my perspective, there is no simple answer as to which of the two Jettas
are preferable.  

Looking at value, the 91, NA diesel, is currently a very low cost car,
and the systems on it are simple.  To a degree, the parts are lower 
cost and more readily available.  If cost were the object, it would
be the car of choice.  In every respect, except kick ass performance,
and interior noise, it is absolutely fine.

Driving the Jetta NA diesel, which is about the most underpowered car
I've owned, is like flying a glider.  Energy management is the key to
success, especially in mountainous terrain.  Keep in mind that this 
car has the same engine as a Rabbit, at nearly 50% the weight increase.

The 03 TDI, is more difficult to source parts for, unless the dealer is
your primary parts supplier.  That drives up the prices considerably.
The car is not as confortable as the 91, interms of seats and interms
of handling characteristics.  It has power comparable to a normal gasser,
but for 99% of my driving, that power is never needed.  

In the long haul, adjusted for inflation, my guess is that the 91 will
cost less per mile and year of ownership, than the 03 will.  And I'm not 
so impatient that the higher power of the 03 tips the overall scale, when
complexity and system robustness are also considered.

Val


	
	






> 
> 
>   Hagar,
> 
> You mention the integration of electronics and injection pumps.... If =
> you
> have the opportunity, drive one of the TDI VW diesels. On second =
> thought,
> don't, because you will be spoiled.=20
> 
> Spoiling Hagar ?   --- not a chance ----  you cant spoil a rotten egg.  =
> I worked with an
> old guy and he had two sayings that stuck with me. Rotten egg was one =
> and
> "You cant sometimes always win"  was the other. Bless his soul he died =
> from tobacco.
> 
> IMHO -- if you are a genius at 50   you were a genius at 5 --- blessed =
> or cursed depending.
> 
> Take a good close look at a HP --Jet printer ----  injection system -- =
> perfected.(genius involved).
> 
> I know what you are hinting at LEE  ----and I am trying to get a ride in =
> a TDI. I had
> a Golf TDI on order last year ,  but the 1984 Rabbit turbo ---is =
> spoiling me every day.
> The stealership had a hard time filling orders.(black only , shit I want =
> light blue)
> 
> I cherish my Hillbilly image --- a lot.  -- sort of being a Mother =
> Theresa ( Teresa?) for Rabbits.
> NO cat scans no MRI's--- but simple treatment that works.
> 
> For hillbilly TUNING of a Rabbit no laptop needed ---not even a dial =
> indicator or
> a compression gauge.-----but you must pay close attention , and listen =
> when
> the rabbit talks to you.
> 
> A Rabbit 19xx will limp home if someone steals the battery ---try that =
> with your TDI.
> 
> I am here to help the temporarily "Down on the luck"  the others really =
> do not need
> me.
> 
> But I am all for high tech answers to pollution and shortage of oil. A =
> 1980 Rabbit
> will beat the pants of a 2004 Hybrid gasser any day of the week.-- Now =
> that indicates
> the Hybrids are a promotion gimmick. --- To sell cars they stick in a =
> stack of D cells
> and pretend it is a partly electric (clean) car.   wrong, BUT they are =
> pointing the way.
> 
> For those of you with dual beam oscilloscopes, to check dynamic timing =
> is a piece of cake.
> If you have a Gasser type timing light -- it can be made to do a Rabbit. =
> 
> 
> Rambling with a BIG glass of V8 in my hand. ----V8 juice ?.
> 
> Hagar.
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