[Vwdiesel] Michael Moore. was "Another way to do t"

[Area31 Research Facility]

First point: just to get it out of the way.  I am not against maintaining
military spending to keep our homes secure, or paying for reasonable use of
such forces.

Main point: My mention of the name Michael Moore seems to have upset a few
individuals here.  If you re-read my original post my statement was fairly
innocuous.  It read "Michael Moore has shown who a few of them are"
referring to the money and power grubbers who get their riches by making
implements of war and seizing oil reserves.  In my context of Big Picture I
portrayed Mr. Moore and his comments as only a tiny portion of the Big
Picture.  I do NOT  "lap everything up that he says".  In fact I didn't know
anything about Mr. Moore until recently when I got a chance to view his film
on a copied cassette.  Believe that I have not suddenly come up with a world
view and opinion as a result of seeing the film made recently by Mr. Moore.

Let us ignore Mr. Moore and discount anything he says completely then.

My Big Picture Point stands!

Fossil fuels will run out, quite soon.  It took millions of year to make
them and we stupid humans are going to enjoy them for maybe 100 years in an
orgy of waste.  Then what will we do when they are gone, or so hard to mine
that the price is no longer within reach?

I spoke of a concept of growing one's own fuel resources and mentioned some
of the benefits that I perceive as real and desirable.  I did not elaborate,
assuming that I am addressing an educated audience here.  You people
appreciate fuel economy and running on environmentally friendly veggie oil
alternatives so I know this forum is full of progressive thinkers.  Imagine
if you will that as part of the new energy revolution you do not have to or
desire to burn your hydrocarbon supply making electricity for homes and
industry.  Save it for powering vehicles and portable machines of industry,
commerce and leisure.  Investing in Wind will lighten the load on our fossil
reserves (until they run out) and then on our agricultural derived fuels, so
people can also eat some food while they enjoy a quality of life.

For what was just spent on the War in Iraq I'll bet every small community in
the US that had the wind to take advantage of could have received a
commercial sized wind turbine. (handwaving generalization to make a point,
please do not bother trying to calculate the cost and challenge my
statement).  My point here is not judgement of the validity of the War, but
use this as an example that indeed the money of this magnitude IS AVAILABLE
from the public purse if those who mangae it deem the project worthy.

I think we need to look at these ideas with the intention of acting on them
quickly.  Given the huge inertia and slothfulness of the status quo, time
may already be too short.

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: "William A. Thompson" <twogreek at hotmail.com>
To: "Area31 Research Facility" <stephensrw at stn.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 3:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] (Fwd) Another way to do it... (NVC)


> I would not dignify any perspective that uses
> Moore as a reference with anything but this
> answer.
>
> The "big picture" you are looking at and implore
> us to treat as legitimate ... is indeed only a
> picture of Moore's bulls#!$ ... nothing more
> nothing less.
>
> People who lap his tripe up don't even recognize
> how bulls#!$ it is that he makes his "obscene
> profits" from idiots who listen to him and treat
> his absurdity as though legitimate.
>
> I feel sorry for those that can't see thru his
> simple minded self serving mental masturbation
> trash talking.
>
> If any part of an argument is invalid ... the
> conclusion one draws from the argument is invalid
> .. even if the same conclusion can be arrived at
> by another completely valid argument. I don't
> expect people who listen to Moore as though his
> arguments are valid to understand that.
>
>     ...Bill

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Area31 Research Facility"
> <stephensrw at stn.net>
> To: "Chris Collin" <rangerdanger_svo at yahoo.com>;
> <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 7:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] (Fwd) Another way to do
> it... (NVC)
>
>
> > Well I guess we are all DOOMED then aren't we?!
> >
> > At some point we have to seriously stop this
> nonsense and look at the big
> > picture.  Putting obscene profits in the pockets
> of an elite few (Michael
> > Moore showed us who some of them are) at the
> expense of all else and
> > humankind's very survival with some sort of
> quality of life is at stake
> > here!
> >
> > I'm a little disapointesd but not surprised with
> the replies that my comment
> > about becoming self sufficient in agricultural
> fuel has inspired here.  Not
> > one of them that complained that the cost of the
> fuel would not be
> > competitive has calculated what the savings
> would be not being in this war
> > or that!  Wars are obscenely expensive and that
> is a very real integral part
> > of the cost of the present fuel supply.  You
> have to take off your blinders
> > and look at the big picture here folks, big
> picture.
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chris Collin"
> <rangerdanger_svo at yahoo.com>
> > To: <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
> > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:38 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Vwdiesel] (Fwd) Another way to do
> it... (NVC)
> >
> >
> > > I remember reading somewhere that there is not
> enough cropland
> > > in the world to supply ourdemand for fuel, and
> then what would we
> > > eat?  It was disheartening to read, but it
> kind of makes sense when
> > > you think about how many millions of years of
> biomass went into
> > > making the earth's petroleum deposits, and how
> relatively few years
> > > will go into depleting these same deposits.  I
> think we should keep
> > > this biofuel thing a secret just between us!
> ;)
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > Mary Beth and Chris Geiser <geiser at execpc.com>
> wrote:
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com
> [mailto:vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com] On
> > > Behalf Of Area31 Research Facility
> > > >
> > > >The United States has the farmland, the
> sunshine and the technological
> > > >knowhow to become completely energy
> self-dependent growing fuel oil. I
> > > >don't know why they don't. It would create
> domestic jobs, improve the
> > > >economy, improve air quality and stop the
> need for many foreign wars and
> > > >American soldiers coming home in body bags.
> Unlike mideastern oil which
> > > >will soon run out, this would be a renewable
> resource.
> > > >
> > > >Rob
> > >
> > >
> > > This is true until you figure in the petroleum
> based fertilizers needed to
> > > maintain the soil. Still, there are much
> better plants that could be
> > > grown to produce oil more efficiently than the
> corn / wheat base we
> > produce
> > > now. Still not quite economically feasible
> yet - maybe next year...
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> _______________________________________________
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> > >
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