[Vwdiesel] 1st oil change after rebuild?

[Shawn Wright]

On 27 Sep 2005 at 20:49, Val Christian <val at valchristian.com> wrote:

> Conceptually the EGTs are not a problem if they are really 1050F at full 
> power.  For an engine break-in, I tend to want to run at 75% power for the
> first 30 minutes, then 80%, with variable power for the next 30.
> Then I check for metal, look at the fluids, check the intake look
> for excessive blow-by.  Then I restart, and run with power between 
> 100% and 50%, with a small amount of "coasting", but less than 10%.

With increased fuelling last night, I saw 1150F when I dropped to 4th and matted it to 
pass a dumptruck on the highway. Only lasted a few seconds though. Temp is 
measured pre-turbo.
 
> By the time I'm at hour three and four, I mostly just drive it pretty 
> hard, but no long periods at full power, and no long "coasts".

Too late for that routine I'm afraid... engine has about 150kms on it now. Hopefully 
my driving around the neighbourhood + a couple of highway runs has been 
reasonable enough. It's hard to avoid 100% on a long hill though, so it's probably 
seen several cases of WOT for up to several minutes at a time already.
 
> You would probably serve yourself well to add oil cooling capacity.
> I don't know what the options are, and each oil cooler gives you a 
> new leak opportunity.  It's worth the risk, because cool and even temp 
> oil is a real good thing.  Especially with the turbo.

Yes, I do want to look into this.
 
> With regard to the issue of 15W40 vs straight weight 40...the simplistic
> way of looking at multivis oil is that the 15W is the cold cold oil
> property.  It's also roughly where the base oil is.  The 40 is the 
> high temp rating, and is attributable to viscosity index improvers.
> 
> If you ran a 5W50 oil, that would be a 5 base, with LOTS of viscosity
> index improvers.  VI improvers don't lubricate, they just change the
> runniness of the oil.  That keeps it in place longer.  So I'd rather 
> run straight weight oil, because you get better lube, less draindown,
> etc.  Besides, straight weight oils are generally not terribly expensive.
> The last several cases I bought were less than $1US/QT.
> 
> From my perspective, there is no real reason to run multivis oil on a 
> breakin.  It's counter-indicated from a lube perspective (remember all
> that VI).  It runs down faster after shutdown (the 10W or whatever part).
> It costs more.  It has anti-wear and scuff additives which are counter
> productive to breakin.

That all makes sense, so I will try to switch to 30W before I go, and change the filter. 
I dumped the 15w40 last night just to take a look, but didn't change the filter.

> Going back to cooling, consider a pulley size change to run the water
> pump faster, given your higher power output of that engine.  I think it
> will serve to create more even temps, and probably save you in the 
> long haul by improving the temp differentials and temp swings.  That
> translates into longer cyl head gasket life, etc.

I think I already have the smallest WP pulley of the 3 sizes, and it's a matched set 
with the PS pulley, so I'm stuck here. Water temps seem very solid so far, moving 
maybe a needle width on the gauge.
 
> Good luck, and I hope that this is of some help.

Thanks, I appreciate it! 
 
> ps:  Feel free to post to vwdiesel, things aren't working for me posting
> there.

I have cc'd this to the list, with your offlist reply quoted in full, hopefully this doesn't 
confuse everyone... ;-) 

> > I don't know for sure that I'll see 260, but others running the same setup
> > report 260 is the top end on long climbs, 230 is typical at 65mph. The highest
> > I've seen is 230F, on a fairly short (2-3km) 8% grade with EGTs at a steady
> > 1050F WOT in 4th. But that was with the old larger T3 turbo. Since I put on
> > the smaller K14, boost is immediate, and EGTs climb quicker, so I expect heat
> > to build up more as well. I will take a drive to town today and see what temps
> > I get. I will be crossing the Cascades in Wa state, then back again in BC, so
> > a fair bit of climbing.
> > 
> > I have noticed that water temps are stable, and return to normal quickly if
> > they do go up a bit, while the oil temp takes a long time to drop even 10
> > degrees once it's up there. Need an extra oil cooler I think, just have the
> > stock TD one now. I've only got about 150 kms on it since rebuild now. When
> > you say 40 is too thick, I assume you mean straight 40, not the 15w40 I'm
> > running. I use it since it's CI-4 rated, and I have 20L buckets of it... so
> > you think I should look for a 30W diesel oil for the rest of break in?
> > 
> > I'll try and come up with a time to call, running around like crazy right now
> > trying to get ready to leave on thurs.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > On 27 Sep 2005 at 14:20, Val Christian wrote:
> > 
> > > You are really pushing that power plant!  Doing so as you are, will
> > > have an adverse effect on reliability.
> > > 
> > > 260 is hot, but within service temps for the oil.   The problem with 40 is
> > > that it is too thick and causes sludge buildup on the ring area, and it
> > > tends to spread more poorly than 30 weight.  If you're doing hot WX
> > > breakins, then I suppose 40.  Personally, I'de use 30.  Aircraft engines get
> > > even hotter.   At least you're water cooled.
> > > 
> > > When you're doing a break-in you want the engine to be at a normal temp, and
> > > you want to have controlled wear of the rings.  This part is probably
> > > already done on your engine.  If not, I'd recommend straight weight.
> > > 
> > > If you want, I can further discuss with you.  Give me a phone, and a time to
> > > call.  9PM eastern is a typically good time for me to call.
> > > 
> > > Val
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On 27 Sep 2005 at 9:36, Val Christian wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > I'm blocked from posting, so direct email.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Keep dino oil in there.  10W30 would be just fine.  Change it before
> > > > > your trip, however.  After 3 to 5K, start your synthetic oil.  Use a new
> > > > > filter after that change.
> > > > > 
> > > > > My 200 kmile Jetta had 495 +/- 5 psi prior to pulling the cyl head this
> > > > > summer.  My overall approach, based upon the unscientific sample of one,
> > > > > must be right.  (grin)  Trust me.  (grin grin).
> > > > > 
> > > > > Seriously, the wear characteristic of the dino are better for the
> > > > > breakin. Use a light grade oil, to help wash things out better.  a
> > > > > 10W30, or even a straight 30 would be just fine.
> > > > > 
> > > > > FWIW, I use straight 30 in the fall/spring, and straight 40 in the heat
> > > > > of summer.  But that's another debate for another day.
> > > > 
> > > > Ok, sounds good. Is 10w30 ok in a Vanagon? I'm running a 1.6TD with 
> > > > 11psi boost, and expect to see oil temps up to 250-260 on hills.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > > > Shawn Wright, I.T. Manager
> > > > Shawnigan Lake School
> > > > http://www.sls.bc.ca
> > > > swright at sls.bc.ca
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > Shawn Wright, I.T. Manager
> > Shawnigan Lake School
> > http://www.sls.bc.ca
> > swright at sls.bc.ca
> > 
> > 
> 

Shawn Wright
http://zuiko.sls.bc.ca/~swright
'85 Jetta D 
'88 Westy 1.6TD 5 speed
 (see progress at http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesels)
'82 Diesel Westy