[Vwdiesel] fuel warmer idea and question
S Boser
java at xprt.net
Thu Mar 16 00:22:39 EST 2006
Hi
I'm not mixing vegetable oil and diesel, but when I run dual tanks in my
Jetta. I use a plastic marine tank made by Tempo. Take a drive over to your
local boating shop, you'll find lots of options and even quick disconnect
fittings that will allow you to remove the tank when your filling it. Best
of all its easy to hack if you want to add a heater loop to it.
Hope this helps
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Cook" <vwdieselbunny at yahoo.com>
To: "diesel list" <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] fuel warmer idea and question
>I have heard concerns about the diesel and oil not
> staying mixed, but I don't think that actually
> happens.
>
> I did a little experiment last summer when I started
> messing with all this, and mixed diesel and veggie oil
> in a 2 Liter pop bottle. I let it sit for like a
> month and it showed no signs of separating.
>
> I know the turnover in my tank is faster than that,
> and when you comine the mixing effect of 1) the car
> driving and fuel sloshing around and 2) fuel being
> returned to the tank I don't think separation is a
> real issue.
>
> I'm not sure even a jerry can would work in my
> situation, because I would have no way to access the
> top to fill it because of how the trunk is situated on
> a Cabriolet. Really, the cleanest solution I've come
> up with would be to remove the stock fuel tank, divide
> it into two sections, and add another filler neck to
> the body. That won't be happening anytime soon...
>
> I guess to sum up my thoughts on all this:
>
> I know that with the mixing of the fuel, I am taking a
> risk that something in the engine could break or wear
> out faster. I wouldn't be trying this with a
> newer/more expensive engine (like, say, a TDI).
>
> I'm just looking at ways to close the "risk/wear
> window" a little bit. I think that by having the fuel
> warmed up some, then the "risk/wear window" will be
> closed down to about the point of just when the engine
> is cold. For example, I've got a pre-filter inline
> before the fuel filter to close the "wear window" on
> the fuel filter some.
>
> I guess we'll see if I get around to doing it... I do
> have an engine I can pull the oil cooler off of.
>
> Sandy, you still mixing fuel? Wanna weigh in?
>
> David
>
>
>
> --- paul lew <biovolks at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>> Unless you're in a place that never gets cold, I'd
>> be hesitant mixing in one tank,
>> if it congeals, you're hooped.Also if it doesn't
>> stay mixed, you never know what ratio is being
>> pumped out of the tank. most people with space
>> problems use a small jerry can (tall skinny kind) in
>> the trunk, and a switcher right by the pump. Also I
>> don't think the car is capable of overheating the
>> vag. oil (unless of course the exhaust is heating
>> it).
>> Paul
>>
>> David Cook <vwdieselbunny at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hey Paul, and others, I appreciate your thoughts.
>>
>> The car I am driving is a Cabriolet that I stuck a
>> diesel engine into a year and a half ago.
>>
>> In the year and a half, I've considered doing a dual
>> fuel system and biodiesel.
>>
>> Being a Convertible, the Cabriolet doesn't have a
>> lot
>> of trunk room, so coming up with a good place for a
>> second tank has been a challenge. The best I could
>> think of would be to relocate the battery to the
>> trunk
>> and fab something to sit in it's place in the engine
>> compartment. I've gone back and forth on this,
>> questioning the intellegence of adding a fuel tank
>> to
>> the engine compartment. On the other hand, it would
>> only be veggie oil, so it probably wouldn't be that
>> big of a deal...
>>
>> Given my living situation, I don't have a good place
>> to convert my veggie oil into biodiesel, so that is
>> pretty much out.
>>
>> Starting late last spring, I started experimenting
>> with mixing the veggie oil with the diesel fuel, and
>> have had success. For regular driving, I've had
>> mixtures of anywhere between 10-50%, and all have
>> worked out fine. (Well, there was one time I ran on
>> approx 75% for about an hour accidently. Car was
>> pretty sluggish for the first 20 minutes or so until
>> the fuel warmed up...)
>>
>> Naturally, I don't go to the higher percentages
>> until
>> the summer time.
>>
>> The engine doesn't seem to care about this. On a
>> cool
>> morning, especially if I haven't plugged in for some
>> reason, the engine runs just a little more roughly
>> for
>> the first few minutes compared to just diesel fuel,
>> but after the engine gets warmed up a bit, it runs,
>> idles, has power, etc very similar (I cannot
>> percieve
>> a difference) to straight diesel fuel. I even think
>> fuel mileage may be a little higher with oil mixed
>> in.
>>
>> Anyway, I know that mixing oil into the fuel
>> thickens
>> it somewhat, which is why I was thinking that
>> heating
>> it would help.
>>
>> Given that even a small percentage of biodiesel
>> significantly raises it's lubricity, I'm thinking
>> that
>> even if I had a pretty low percentage of veggie oil
>> in
>> the tank, having my fuel heater idea may still work
>> okay without lowering the lubricity too much.
>>
>> Does this make sense? Again, I'm thinking that maybe
>> a valve in the line could solve the worry about
>> overheating the fuel when it is nearly 100% diesel.
>> In the summer, I'll likely be always putting veggie
>> oil in the tank, unless I take a long trip which
>> will
>> require refueling somewhere out of town.
>>
>> This heater wouldn't do much for a cold start, but
>> should reduce the amount of time that the engine is
>> cold and running on thicker fuel.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>> --- paul lew wrote:
>>
>> > The minimum you would heat the oil to without
>> > causing problems before switching is 70 F .
>> > If you wan,t I can e-mail you a good paper that
>> > explains the heating, cetane #'s etc. of all
>> fuels.
>> > 67KB
>> > Paul
>> >
>> > James Hansen wrote:
>> > Strictly guessing, I would wager the lubricity of
>> > warm vegetable oil is
>> > higher than warm diesel... viscosity being what it
>> > is and all.
>> >
>> > I think it HAS to be heated, or it causes the
>> > injectors to puke eventually,
>> > so that's sort of moot.
>> > The heater valve would work as long as you didn't
>> > forget to turn it on when
>> > vegetable oil is running.
>> > -James
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com
>> > [mailto:vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com]On
>> > Behalf Of David Cook
>> > Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 9:11 AM
>> > To: diesel list
>> > Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] fuel warmer idea and
>> > question
>> >
>> >
>> > Good point. So, does the heated veggie oil thing
>> do
>> > anything bad to the pump (or, is it okay because
>> > veggie oil lubes better than diesel fuel
>> anyway...)
>> >
>> > Maybe I could put a valve in one of the lines
>> > (similar
>> > to a heater valve) so I could close the coolant
>> flow
>> > to the heater when there is little or no veggie
>> oil
>> > in
>> > the fuel or it is very hot outside.
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> >
>> > --- James Hansen wrote:
>> >
>> > > fuel is used to cool and lubricate the injection
>> > > pump and injectors during
>> > > normal operation, and return the warm fuel to
>> the
>> > > tank or filter in winter..
>> > > supplying it with hot fuel may not be good,
>> dunno.
>> > > -James
>> > >
>> >
>> > David Cook
>> > Red '86 Cabriolet Diesel Powered
>> > Red '90 g60 Corrado
>> > Brown and White '78 Westy Campmobile "Bear"
>> > and others in various states of disrepair
>> > Pictures here:
>> > community.webshots.com/user/superdave5599
>> >
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>>
>>
>> David Cook
>> Red '86 Cabriolet Diesel Powered
>> Red '90 g60 Corrado
>> Brown and White '78 Westy Campmobile "Bear"
>> and others in various states of disrepair
>> Pictures here:
>> community.webshots.com/user/superdave5599
>>
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>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
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>>
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>
>
> David Cook
> Red '86 Cabriolet Diesel Powered
> Red '90 g60 Corrado
> Brown and White '78 Westy Campmobile "Bear"
> and others in various states of disrepair
> Pictures here: community.webshots.com/user/superdave5599
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
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