[Vwdiesel] fuel warmer idea and question

[82 Diesel Westy]

Steve and David, read this thread and I am in the same
boat as David.  When my 1.9na gets back in operation I
think I will be mixing directly in the tank during
summer, warmer spring and fall days only.  

I have an extra tank for my vanagon so maybe I can
experiment with this tank, possibly installing a low
wattage block heater in it that is thermistatically
set to shut off at 70F.  That would handle pre-heating
mixed fuel on cool mornings.

Do I take it a step farther and install engine coolant
coils in the tank as well to keep it warm when not
plugged in or use a power inverter to keep the 120
volt "low wattage" block heater going.

What do you think?
Also, can you explain the difference here.
Mixed WVO and diesel is NOT biodiesel, correct?
Is there a name for it?

Biodiesel is a bit more complexed to make, as
described on many sites.

Thanks, Bryan from NJ

--- S Boser <java at xprt.net> wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I'm not mixing vegetable oil and diesel, but when I
> run dual tanks in my 
> Jetta. I use a plastic marine tank made by Tempo.
> Take a drive over to your 
> local boating shop, you'll find lots of options and
> even quick disconnect 
> fittings that will allow you to remove the tank when
> your filling it. Best 
> of all its easy to hack if you want to add a heater
> loop to it.
> Hope this helps
> 
> Steve
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Cook" <vwdieselbunny at yahoo.com>
> To: "diesel list" <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 4:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] fuel warmer idea and
> question
> 
> 
> >I have heard concerns about the diesel and oil not
> > staying mixed, but I don't think that actually
> > happens.
> >
> > I did a little experiment last summer when I
> started
> > messing with all this, and mixed diesel and veggie
> oil
> > in a 2 Liter pop bottle.  I let it sit for like a
> > month and it showed no signs of separating.
> >
> > I know the turnover in my tank is faster than
> that,
> > and when you comine the mixing effect of 1) the
> car
> > driving and fuel sloshing around and 2) fuel being
> > returned to the tank I don't think separation is a
> > real issue.
> >
> > I'm not sure even a jerry can would work in my
> > situation, because I would have no way to access
> the
> > top to fill it because of how the trunk is
> situated on
> > a Cabriolet.  Really, the cleanest solution I've
> come
> > up with would be to remove the stock fuel tank,
> divide
> > it into two sections, and add another filler neck
> to
> > the body.  That won't be happening anytime soon...
> >
> > I guess to sum up my thoughts on all this:
> >
> > I know that with the mixing of the fuel, I am
> taking a
> > risk that something in the engine could break or
> wear
> > out faster.  I wouldn't be trying this with a
> > newer/more expensive engine (like, say, a TDI).
> >
> > I'm just looking at ways to close the "risk/wear
> > window" a little bit.  I think that by having the
> fuel
> > warmed up some, then the "risk/wear window" will
> be
> > closed down to about the point of just when the
> engine
> > is cold.  For example, I've got a pre-filter
> inline
> > before the fuel filter to close the "wear window"
> on
> > the fuel filter some.
> >
> > I guess we'll see if I get around to doing it... 
> I do
> > have an engine I can pull the oil cooler off of.
> >
> > Sandy, you still mixing fuel?  Wanna weigh in?
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > --- paul lew <biovolks at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>   Unless you're in a place that never gets cold,
> I'd
> >> be hesitant mixing in one tank,
> >>   if it congeals, you're hooped.Also if it
> doesn't
> >> stay mixed, you never know what ratio is being
> >> pumped out of the tank. most people with space
> >> problems use a small jerry can (tall skinny kind)
> in
> >> the trunk, and a switcher right by the pump. Also
> I
> >> don't think the car is capable of overheating the
> >> vag. oil (unless of course the exhaust is heating
> >> it).
> >>   Paul
> >>
> >> David Cook <vwdieselbunny at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>   Hey Paul, and others, I appreciate your
> thoughts.
> >>
> >> The car I am driving is a Cabriolet that I stuck
> a
> >> diesel engine into a year and a half ago.
> >>
> >> In the year and a half, I've considered doing a
> dual
> >> fuel system and biodiesel.
> >>
> >> Being a Convertible, the Cabriolet doesn't have a
> >> lot
> >> of trunk room, so coming up with a good place for
> a
> >> second tank has been a challenge. The best I
> could
> >> think of would be to relocate the battery to the
> >> trunk
> >> and fab something to sit in it's place in the
> engine
> >> compartment. I've gone back and forth on this,
> >> questioning the intellegence of adding a fuel
> tank
> >> to
> >> the engine compartment. On the other hand, it
> would
> >> only be veggie oil, so it probably wouldn't be
> that
> >> big of a deal...
> >>
> >> Given my living situation, I don't have a good
> place
> >> to convert my veggie oil into biodiesel, so that
> is
> >> pretty much out.
> >>
> >> Starting late last spring, I started
> experimenting
> >> with mixing the veggie oil with the diesel fuel,
> and
> >> have had success. For regular driving, I've had
> >> mixtures of anywhere between 10-50%, and all have
> >> worked out fine. (Well, there was one time I ran
> on
> >> approx 75% for about an hour accidently. Car was
> >> pretty sluggish for the first 20 minutes or so
> until
> >> the fuel warmed up...)
> >>
> >> Naturally, I don't go to the higher percentages
> >> until
> >> the summer time.
> >>
> >> The engine doesn't seem to care about this. On a
> >> cool
> >> morning, especially if I haven't plugged in for
> some
> >> reason, the engine runs just a little more
> roughly
> >> for
> >> the first few minutes compared to just diesel
> fuel,
> >> but after the engine gets warmed up a bit, it
> runs,
> >> idles, has power, etc very similar (I cannot
> >> percieve
> >> a difference) to straight diesel fuel. I even
> think
> >> fuel mileage may be a little higher with oil
> mixed
> >> in.
> >>
> >> Anyway, I know that mixing oil into the fuel
> >> thickens
> >> it somewhat, which is why I was thinking that
> >> heating
> >> it would help.
> >>
> >> Given that even a small percentage of biodiesel
> >> significantly raises it's lubricity, I'm thinking
> >> that
> >> even if I had a pretty low percentage of veggie
> oil
> >> in
> >> the tank, having my fuel heater idea may still
> work
> >> okay without lowering the lubricity too much.
> >>
> >> Does this make sense? Again, I'm thinking that
> maybe
> >> a valve in the line could solve the worry about
> >> overheating the fuel when it is nearly 100%
> diesel.
> 
=== message truncated ===



Bryan Belman, Pt Pleasant, NJ
04 Jetta Wagon TDI PD, 100hp, 5sp
Rebuilding 82 Diesel Weekender from my old rusty 82 Westy 1.9NA
90 Audi 200, 2.2L Turbo FWD
70 Type 1 stock Beetle