[Vwdiesel] fuel warmer idea and question

[David Cook]

The other day I was typing a response to this thread,
but something happened to the window before I got it
sent.

Anyway, I'll see if I can remember what I was
saying...

I can't imagine that it could hurt anything to add
some sort of warmer that is on whenever the car is on
(IE, a block heater) to the fuel tank.

However, I don't think you need to worry about heating
the tank in any other way.  In my experience, even a
little bit higher concentrations of veggie oil, once
the engine itself has warmed up, it has no problems--a
normal idle, etc.  When the engine is colder, the idle
will be lower than if it had 100% diesel, but when hot
it doesn't matter.

So, assuming the block heater(s) warmed everything up
to begin with, then once you are driving, there
shouldn't be any problems.  

I think a filter warmer, like I mentioned, would be
more than sufficient since it will run well when the
engine is warm anyway.  

I wouldn't want to mess with turning an inverter on
and off and all that for little extra value, and if
you were running coolant lines to the tank, why not
just go a little farther and do a dual fuel
conversion?

Just my thoughts.

David 

--- 82 Diesel Westy <dieselwesty at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Steve and David, read this thread and I am in the
> same
> boat as David.  When my 1.9na gets back in operation
> I
> think I will be mixing directly in the tank during
> summer, warmer spring and fall days only.  
> 
> I have an extra tank for my vanagon so maybe I can
> experiment with this tank, possibly installing a low
> wattage block heater in it that is thermistatically
> set to shut off at 70F.  That would handle
> pre-heating
> mixed fuel on cool mornings.
> 
> Do I take it a step farther and install engine
> coolant
> coils in the tank as well to keep it warm when not
> plugged in or use a power inverter to keep the 120
> volt "low wattage" block heater going.
> 
> What do you think?
> Also, can you explain the difference here.
> Mixed WVO and diesel is NOT biodiesel, correct?
> Is there a name for it?
> 
> Biodiesel is a bit more complexed to make, as
> described on many sites.
> 
> Thanks, Bryan from NJ
> 
> --- S Boser <java at xprt.net> wrote:
> 
> > Hi
> > 
> > I'm not mixing vegetable oil and diesel, but when
> I
> > run dual tanks in my 
> > Jetta. I use a plastic marine tank made by Tempo.
> > Take a drive over to your 
> > local boating shop, you'll find lots of options
> and
> > even quick disconnect 
> > fittings that will allow you to remove the tank
> when
> > your filling it. Best 
> > of all its easy to hack if you want to add a
> heater
> > loop to it.
> > Hope this helps
> > 
> > Steve
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "David Cook" <vwdieselbunny at yahoo.com>
> > To: "diesel list" <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 4:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] fuel warmer idea and
> > question
> > 
> > 
> > >I have heard concerns about the diesel and oil
> not
> > > staying mixed, but I don't think that actually
> > > happens.
> > >
> > > I did a little experiment last summer when I
> > started
> > > messing with all this, and mixed diesel and
> veggie
> > oil
> > > in a 2 Liter pop bottle.  I let it sit for like
> a
> > > month and it showed no signs of separating.
> > >
> > > I know the turnover in my tank is faster than
> > that,
> > > and when you comine the mixing effect of 1) the
> > car
> > > driving and fuel sloshing around and 2) fuel
> being
> > > returned to the tank I don't think separation is
> a
> > > real issue.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure even a jerry can would work in my
> > > situation, because I would have no way to access
> > the
> > > top to fill it because of how the trunk is
> > situated on
> > > a Cabriolet.  Really, the cleanest solution I've
> > come
> > > up with would be to remove the stock fuel tank,
> > divide
> > > it into two sections, and add another filler
> neck
> > to
> > > the body.  That won't be happening anytime
> soon...
> > >
> > > I guess to sum up my thoughts on all this:
> > >
> > > I know that with the mixing of the fuel, I am
> > taking a
> > > risk that something in the engine could break or
> > wear
> > > out faster.  I wouldn't be trying this with a
> > > newer/more expensive engine (like, say, a TDI).
> > >
> > > I'm just looking at ways to close the "risk/wear
> > > window" a little bit.  I think that by having
> the
> > fuel
> > > warmed up some, then the "risk/wear window" will
> > be
> > > closed down to about the point of just when the
> > engine
> > > is cold.  For example, I've got a pre-filter
> > inline
> > > before the fuel filter to close the "wear
> window"
> > on
> > > the fuel filter some.
> > >
> > > I guess we'll see if I get around to doing it...
> 
> > I do
> > > have an engine I can pull the oil cooler off of.
> > >
> > > Sandy, you still mixing fuel?  Wanna weigh in?
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- paul lew <biovolks at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi
> > >>   Unless you're in a place that never gets
> cold,
> > I'd
> > >> be hesitant mixing in one tank,
> > >>   if it congeals, you're hooped.Also if it
> > doesn't
> > >> stay mixed, you never know what ratio is being
> > >> pumped out of the tank. most people with space
> > >> problems use a small jerry can (tall skinny
> kind)
> > in
> > >> the trunk, and a switcher right by the pump.
> Also
> > I
> > >> don't think the car is capable of overheating
> the
> > >> vag. oil (unless of course the exhaust is
> heating
> > >> it).
> > >>   Paul
> > >>
> > >> David Cook <vwdieselbunny at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >>   Hey Paul, and others, I appreciate your
> > thoughts.
> > >>
> > >> The car I am driving is a Cabriolet that I
> stuck
> > a
> > >> diesel engine into a year and a half ago.
> > >>
> > >> In the year and a half, I've considered doing a
> > dual
> > >> fuel system and biodiesel.
> > >>
> > >> Being a Convertible, the Cabriolet doesn't have
> a
> > >> lot
> > >> of trunk room, so coming up with a good place
> for
> > a
> > >> second tank has been a challenge. The best I
> > could
> > >> think of would be to relocate the battery to
> the
> > >> trunk
> > >> and fab something to sit in it's place in the
> > engine
> > >> compartment. I've gone back and forth on this,
> > >> questioning the intellegence of adding a fuel
> > tank
> > >> to
> > >> the engine compartment. On the other hand, it
> > would
> > >> only be veggie oil, so it probably wouldn't be
> > that
> > >> big of a deal...
> > >>
> > >> Given my living situation, I don't have a good
> > place
> > >> to convert my veggie oil into biodiesel, so
> that
> > is
> > >> pretty much out.
> > >>
> > >> Starting late last spring, I started
> > experimenting
> > >> with mixing the veggie oil with the diesel
> fuel,
> > and
> > >> have had success. For regular driving, I've had
> > >> mixtures of anywhere between 10-50%, and all
> have
> > >> worked out fine. (Well, there was one time I
> ran
> > on
> > >> approx 75% for about an hour accidently. Car
> was
> > >> pretty sluggish for the first 20 minutes or so
> > until
> > >> the fuel warmed up...)
> > >>
> > >> Naturally, I don't go to the higher percentages
> > >> until
> > >> the summer time.
> > >>
> > >> The engine doesn't seem to care about this. On
> a
> > >> cool
> > >> morning, especially if I haven't plugged in for
> > some
> > >> reason, the engine runs just a little more
> > roughly
> > >> for
> > >> the first few minutes compared to just diesel
> > fuel,
> > >> but after the engine gets warmed up a bit, it
> > runs,
> > >> idles, has power, etc very similar (I cannot
> > >> percieve
> > >> a difference) to straight diesel fuel. I even
> > think
> > >> fuel mileage may be a little higher with oil
> > mixed
> > >> in.
> > >>
> > >> Anyway, I know that mixing oil into the fuel
> > >> thickens
> > >> it somewhat, which is why I was thinking that
> > >> heating
> > >> it would help.
> > >>
> > >> Given that even a small percentage of biodiesel
> > >> significantly raises it's lubricity, I'm
> thinking
> > >> that
> > >> even if I had a pretty low percentage of veggie
> > oil
> > >> in
> > >> the tank, having my fuel heater idea may still
> > work
> > >> okay without lowering the lubricity too much.
> > >>
> > >> Does this make sense? Again, I'm thinking that
> > maybe
> > >> a valve in the line could solve the worry about
> > >> overheating the fuel when it is nearly 100%
> > diesel.
> > 
> === message truncated ===
> 
> 
> 
> Bryan Belman, Pt Pleasant, NJ
> 04 Jetta Wagon TDI PD, 100hp, 5sp
> Rebuilding 82 Diesel Weekender from my old rusty 82
> Westy 1.9NA
> 90 Audi 200, 2.2L Turbo FWD
> 70 Type 1 stock Beetle
> _______________________________________________
> Vwdiesel mailing list
> Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
> 


David Cook
Red '86 Cabriolet Diesel Powered
Red '90 g60 Corrado 
Brown and White '78 Westy Campmobile "Bear"
and others in various states of disrepair
Pictures here: community.webshots.com/user/superdave5599

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