[Vwdiesel] Anyone driven the '09 TDI yet? On tiptronics and such

Sat Aug 23 10:57:29 PDT 2008

Yes, there are basically three types of "automatic" transmissions currently 
on the market.

One is the traditional automatic with the "PRNDL" type of setup. This can 
and has been used for years, and uses a torque converter, a lockup unit in 
anything since about the mid 80's.

The second is the first generation of "tiptronic" transmissions. BTW, 
"tiptronic" is a trademark of Porsche, incidentally. These were automatic 
transmissions with lockup torque converters as well. The only thing to 
differentiate these from a traditional auto was the "gate" on the side with 
a + or -. Rather than shifting 1st, then second, then third and so on by 
guiding the lever through the traditional gate or slider, these had the side 
or back gate where one way upshifts and the other dwonshifts. It's still an 
automatic, and WILL shift for you at the redline, in most cases. It will 
also downshift for you when floored. But, then will hold that gear till you 
decide otherwise or hit the redline.

The third is actually a computer controlled manual transmission. There are 
several versions of these. Most manufacturers use a single clutch setup with 
traditional gears, with solenoids selecting the gears. VAG also has a CVT 
version, but still uses a clutch. The VAG DSG is the dual clutch trans that 
is in the newer TDI's. In fact the one I sent to the dealer was an 06 model. 
She had no idea it wasn't a traditional automatic. That trans is called DSG 
for "Direct Shift Gearbox". It uses two computer controlled clutches. So, it 
can preselect the next gear and make very quick gear changes. Basically, it 
simple disengages one clutch while engaging the next. I love this trans in 
an Audi A3 with a 2.0T. Take one of the spin, you will fall in love.

Now, for the bad news, these transmissions are for the most part the future 
of manuals. It won't be long, and manuals will only be offered in economy 
cars (even those are mostly automatic now) and true sports cars. I don't 
like it, and a lot of you don't either. But, we are the minority. Only 6.5% 
of the new cars sold in the US last year were equipped with manual 
transmissions.

Tony Hoffman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shawn Wright" <vwdiesels at gmail.com>
To: <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] Anyone driven the '09 TDI yet? On tiptronics and 
such

> Isn't the new 6 speed tip a different dual clutch design from the older 
> tiptronics? Probably
> even more to go wrong. I will avoid automagic trannies as long as I can. 
> Dad's going with the
> auto though, so I'll get a change to drive it next month. His '03 TDI is 
> an auto (not tip), and
> he's ok with it, except it does chew into the economy.
>
> On 21 Aug 2008 at 23:37, James Hansen <jhsg at sasktel.net> wrote:
>
>> Yeah.  The 05 Passat has tip.
>> Bleah.
>> It's a shlushboxsh.  The manual bumpshift option/feature/toy/novelty
>> gets old fast, as big brother still watches over your shoulder and
>> shifts for you if it feels you are not doing it right, or maybe
>> infracting an occasional epa bylaw. Tiptronic is to a manual gearbox as
>> cornflakes is to theater popcorn- they are still both made out of corn,
>> but far from the same.
>>
>> ranting aside, the shift points are all wrong, it winds this efficient
>> high torque 2 liter motor out so it screams.  There is no way in hell it
>> is being more efficient than I would be with a manual gearbox.  I'm
>> planning to chip it when I get some time to do so, hoping that that may
>> also reprogram the shift points to more sensible rpm's.  For instance,
>> when you apply moderate throttle and hold it there, it finally shifts to
>> high at 140kph, and downshifts to full scream every time you go to pass.
>> Utter crap.  I love the car.  I tolerate the transmission under extreme
>> duress.
>> -james
>>
>>
>> Tony and Lillie wrote:
>> > You used the word "durability" in the same sentance as "Tiptronic"?
>> >
>> > They are quite far from it, as your obvious 75 years of being a car 
>> > buff has
>> > told you. I have yet to replace a manual in a MK4, but have done three 
>> > Tip's.
>> > Also done one 4-speed auto. And, sent a DSG back to VW with 26K that 
>> > was under
>> > warranty. She is a good customer, so I asked with she got back. She 
>> > said they
>> > replaced the trans. Yea, give me one of those please..........
>> >
>> > I think I'll keep the 82 Jetta and the 85 4000Q, thank you very much.
>> > Tony Hoffman
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "William J Toensing" <toensing at wildblue.net>
>> > To: <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:49 AM
>> > Subject: [Vwdiesel] Anyone driven the '09 TDI yet?
>> >
>> >
>> >> Yes, at the VW dealer in the Roseville (Calif) Auto Mall. However, it 
>> >> was
>> >> only around the circular road inside the mall, not a real chance to 
>> >> test
>> >> drive the car. It was a 4 door sedan with the "Tiptronic" manumatic. 
>> >> It felt
>> >> reasonably smooth for an automatic, especially when you consider it to 
>> >> be an
>> >> automated manual transmission. I liked the car but would prefer a
>> >> "Sportwagon" with the 6 speed manual due to my concerns with the 
>> >> Tiptronic
>> >> "manumatic". I saw a cut-a-way display of this "manumatic" 
>> >> transmission. From
>> >> my experience as a 75 year old car buff, I wonder about the durability 
>> >> of
>> >> this transmission, especially in stop & go city traffic. How long will 
>> >> the
>> >> clutches (it has two, I have read) last? The transmission looked so
>> >> complicated I doubt any VW dealership or independent automatic 
>> >> transmission
>> >> repair shop will be able to repair it. I hope I am wrong in this 
>> >> assessment
>> >> as an automatic that is as flexible as a manual transmission & offers 
>> >> as good
>> >> or better fuel economy than a transmission would be a plus, if it is 
>> >> durable
>> >> & not extremely costly to repair. Bill Toensing, Nevada City, CA
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
> Shawn Wright
> http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesels
> '88 Westy 1.6TD 5 speed
> '85 Jetta Diesel 1.6NA
>
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