[Vwdiesel] Gas/diesel prices

[LBaird119 at aol.com]

In a message dated 5/25/2008 5:25:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
toensing at wildblue.net writes:

> I agree with much of what Tom Krummell says except I feel nationalization 
> of Big Oil is one of the answers. Maybe their are other answers. Why? It is 
> the oil well owners that are making out like bandits, not the refineries &local 
> gas stations. Also oil speculators are making out like bandits &should be 
> taken out of the loop somehow. I agree that oil well drilling should be opened 
> on both coasts &in ANWAR in Alaska. However, opening them will not lower oil 
> prices or probably even slow their climb, as current oil prices are world 
> market driven &OPEC is able to maintain these prices by controlling supply. 


  Nationalization of anything is usually a bad idea.  Government does
just about everything less efficiently than private enterprise and 
continues to get worse as it goes along, raising tax on it all the 
way.  Speculators don't control the prices, they gamble on the 
price following their speculation.  If it goes down, they lose and 
usually big.  At least as far as I know.  If our consumption was 
somewhere near our output, then opening up more domestic 
production would indeed help but just as easily, OPEC could 
just then cut production and the world price would stay or go 
up. :-( Indeed oil well owners are the ones making out in all this 
but hey, everyone deserves a break and I'd sure rather see "local" 
folks stuffing that money in their investments rather than all of it 
going to some foreign country that would use it to our detriment.

We need to greatly decrease oil consumption in the USA. We should issue 
wavers 
> from our DOT/EPA standards for any car that gets over 50 MPG (see 
> www.40mpg.org) provided they meet equilivant European or Japanese standards which are 
> almost as strict as ours, but current technical differences are keeping high 
> mileage cars from our shores. Detroit knows how to build these cars as they 
> do make them in Europe. We should also highly subsidize the plug in hybrids 
> that are coming on line in a couple years, provided they have a battery range 
> of 40 miles or more. It is understood that 80% of drivers drive less than 40 
> miles a day, 80 % of the time. Can you imagine what a dent in oil consumption 
> this would make? 


  Well, maybe not much.  Consider that a LOT of oil goes into planes, 
trains, trucks, busses, ships, heating, electrical production, 
lubrication, synthetics and so on.  Then consider that in MOST of the 
country, electricity is produced by oil or coal fired plants.  Thus 
if you live where it's oil fired, you'll net very little if any reduction 
of consumption.  Calories to kw is calories to kw and a good, efficient 
car is probably not far from what a power plant can do.  An article 
in EC way back when stated that efficient cars actually produced 
less polution than a power plant charging an electric car's batteries 
for the same distance driven.
  In the northwest, where nearly all the power comes from hydro, 
electric cars would really make sense.  Then again unless you're in 
Seattle/Tacoma area or maybe Spokane, the difference it'd make 
is minimal.  Then realize that the State of Washington doesn't 
recognize hydro as a renewable source of electricity.
  Please remember that a "government subsidy" means you're taking 
money out of MY pocket and putting it in someone elses for the 
sake of promoting something that's economically unviable under 
normal market forces.


The rising price of diesel is causing rising food &other prices. What will 
the cost of 
> $10 or $12 a gallon diesel do to our standard of living? Think about this 
> before condemning oil nationalization. But maybe there are other ways to 
> control what will be the downfall of our nation &much of the world.
> 

  Nationalization is a lot to blame for those rising food prices.  Ethanol 
is being HEAVILY subsidized such that people are growing corn for 
thos subsidies instead of other crops.  Corn price goes up because 
of an artificially high price put on it by the subsidies.  Other crops
go up in price because less of them are being produced in favor of 
ethanol subsidized crops.  Of course higher shipping and equipment 
operation costs due to higher diesel prices are killing it too but which 
is really contributing the most?  <shrug>
  Indeed this country is heavily dependant on mobility and high fuel 
prices really hurt that  It'll hurt the US more than many other 
countries.  The economy would really have to reorganize into local 
sects in order to thrive.
    Loren




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