[Vwdiesel] Not Deisel, just brake bleeding hell on a VW bug question

Bryan Belman dieselwesty at yahoo.com
Thu Jul 22 07:33:15 PDT 2010


Thanks all, here is a summery, this job is not done yet.
ALL brake hoses, hard lines and front wheel cylinders were replaced on this car 
in the past 2-3 years.  This is a 72 Super Beetle



LESSON LEARNED at age 46, working on VW's for many years, brain walls to thick 
to learn this lesson.
DO the Easy things FIRST.

So, with a brake job.
Adjust brake shoes out to drag and back off, don't just look at them, move the 
adjusters to be sure.
Bleed brakes, I used Loren's method this time around: 4 steps, 2 people needed.
    1.  open valve
    2.  other person pushes brake peddle 1/2 way down and you listen for bubbles 
or fluid
    3.  close valve
    4.  tell helper to let up on the brake peddle.

I did this starting with each connection to the brake lines at the new master 
cylinder.  I had previously put the new master in a coffee can of new brake 
fluid and pumped the piston no more then 3/4 of an inch to get fluid into the 
thing.

I still heard some air coming out of the master and after 4 or 5 shots, all 
fluid.

Then moved back to Rt. rear wheel, 6 to 7 shots there to get all the air out.
then Lf. rear wheel
then Rt. front wheel
last, Lf. front wheel.

I got good flow surprisingly from this simple method of bleeding but I am going 
to be making a pressure bleeder for ANY future brake work.

So, get back in the car, the peddle is still traveling way to far down but is 
solid.

Next I adjusted the front shoes, they were ok but I got them a little closer 
with some drag, that help bring the peddle up a little bit.
Then went to back brake shoe adjustment and I could only adjust 1 shoe in each 
rear wheel as the other adjuster is frozen SOLID.
E-Brake handle comes up pretty far.   This was the issue all along I think.  
They guy who did the brake replacement job some years ago most likely did not 
remove the rear brake drums or did not bother trying to free up the frozen 
adjusters and turned the screw out that holds the shoe.  I would say only a few 
hundred miles have been put on this car since the brakes were done, so it is not 
brake shoe ware down.
 
So, before I see if they lady will even want me to finish the job to test my 
theory.
If I pull up on the e-brake a bit, just before it catches and step on the brakes 
and the peddle is not much higher, that is my issues, the shoes have to be 
pushed to far in the back to stop.  Pulling up on the e-brake will move them out 
for me first.
 
The other option here is the drums are beyond the ware limits, they seem to be 
original.  I do not have the tool to measure them.
 
 
Last thing, on a bug rear wheel 36mm nuts, I seem to remember one of them being 
left hand threads, Rt. side maybe?
 
 
 
Thanks all.
Bryan Belman, Pt. Pleasant, NJ
04 Jetta Wagon TDI PD, 100hp, 5sp -- running :)
92 Jetta 1.6 Eco-Turbo Diesel -- running :}
82 Diesel Westy 1.9NA -- running :)
70 Type 1 stock Beetle -- Not running :( 




________________________________
From: "dieseltdi at verizon.net" <dieseltdi at verizon.net>
To: Bryan Belman <dieselwesty at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 7:56:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] Not Deisel, just brake bleeding hell on a VW bug 
question

Rubber brake hoses.  Trust me on this, if they have any time on them, they can 
swell shut.  You can sometimes pull a suction on them with out collapsing them 
but often times as soon as pressure from the master cylinder hits them they shut 
up tighter than a drum.  If replacing the master cylinder still doesn't work, 
then the hoses are the next step.  Actually they are pretty easy to replace.  I 
know this from WAY, WAT to many brake jobs on WAY, WAY too many beetles, buses 
and Karmann Ghias.  Hayden

On Jul 21, 2010, at 11:02 AM, Bryan Belman wrote:

> Hi all, I work on this ladies 72 super beetle from time to time, 95% rust 
free,
> like working on history because so much of the car is still good.
> anyway, I have a 20 hour brake story, what am I doing wrong.
> 
> starts out with soft to no brakes, OK, I can fix that for you.
> I have a mighty vac.
> It is not like the peddle will pump up, it just had little braking.
> Tried to vac. some fluid out of the lines, got very little and no air.
> ordered new master as this one was orig.
>  * Super beetle master cyl. is different, did not know that.
> 
> Dropped spacer sleeve into the abiss in the body, 1 hour tired to get it,
> removed peddle assm. 2 hours later I had cut a new one from similar pipe 
stock.
> 
> Put new master in, did not bench bleed it.
> 
> nothing, could get very little suction with my might vac. to get good flow of
> fluid from brake res. with fresh fluid in it.
> tried pumping, nothing, no peddle would come up even after pumping 20-30 
times.
> 
> **************
> I did press ALL THE WAY DOWN at times, maybe I blew it out here as you are 
>Never
> supposed to press it all the way?
> **************
> 
> Took master off again to bench press after finding this great web sight. Rob 
>and
> Dave's Aircooled sight http://www.vw-resource.com/
> 
> I pumped it in a can of brake fluid and left it sit for 3 days while I was 
away
> on a vw weekend.
> came home, put it back in on Monday night, nothing, no change.
> I would get just enough pressure to stop the wheels from spinning but still
> would get little flow with mighty vac and I would things were looking better 
in
> the back, as soon as I would open the front Rt. side, nothing, could no longer
> get enough to stop the wheels from spinning.
> 
> Then went back to old fashion way, tried and true.
> My wife would pump the brake 7-10 times, hold it in, I would open the bleeder 
>to
> hose and clear bottle 1/2 full of fluid.  Close it, she lets up on the peddle
> and pumps again.  OK on the back, when I get up front, nothing, I lose all
> ground on getting any peddle pressure.
> 
> So, back to square 1.
> Master cyl is out.
> I rent a brake pressure bleeder from Advance Auto Parts for FREE.  It works as 
>a
> might vac OR you can fill the container on it and PUSH the fluid into the 
>system
> with like 10psi, it even has a gauge.  So, I do this to each circuit, each 
>wheel
> and I have a good steam of clean fluid coming out of each bleeder, 1 by 1.
> 
> Today I will get a Replacement super beetle master, but TRW brand, not the KMM
> brand I got before.
> I Will bench bleed the new master cyl. out of the box before putting it on the
> car, yes.
> 
> Any suggestions before I pull the trigger.  I can't charge her for more then
> like 6 hours of this ordeal.
> 
> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> 
> 
>  Bryan Belman, Pt. Pleasant, NJ
> 04 Jetta Wagon TDI PD, 100hp, 5sp -- running :)
> 92 Jetta 1.6 Eco-Turbo Diesel -- running :}
> 82 Diesel Westy 1.9NA -- running :)
> 70 Type 1 stock Beetle -- Not running :(
> _______________________________________________
> Vwdiesel mailing list
> Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel

" Those who are willing to sacrifice Liberty for Security, deserve neither 
Liberty nor Security."  Ben Franklin


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Proud owner of:
2004 Jetta GL PD TDI, K&N Filter, ScanGauge II
1968 Beetle, my latest project, watch for details
And many, many, many VWs; from a 1947 Beetle (13 Beetles total), to Vans (5 - 3 
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