[Vwdiesel] Not Deisel, just brake bleeding hell on a VW bug question

[Andrew .Libby]

I usually bleed the brakes until I have replaced all of the fluid.  Usually
there is some air hiding just before the new fluid.  Getting that out
usually takes more than 6-7 pumps for the rear cylinders.

Andrew

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:33 AM, Bryan Belman <dieselwesty at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thanks all, here is a summery, this job is not done yet.
> ALL brake hoses, hard lines and front wheel cylinders were replaced on this
> car
> in the past 2-3 years.  This is a 72 Super Beetle
>
>
>
> LESSON LEARNED at age 46, working on VW's for many years, brain walls to
> thick
> to learn this lesson.
> DO the Easy things FIRST.
>
> So, with a brake job.
> Adjust brake shoes out to drag and back off, don't just look at them, move
> the
> adjusters to be sure.
> Bleed brakes, I used Loren's method this time around: 4 steps, 2 people
> needed.
>     1.  open valve
>     2.  other person pushes brake peddle 1/2 way down and you listen for
> bubbles
> or fluid
>     3.  close valve
>     4.  tell helper to let up on the brake peddle.
>
> I did this starting with each connection to the brake lines at the new
> master
> cylinder.  I had previously put the new master in a coffee can of new brake
> fluid and pumped the piston no more then 3/4 of an inch to get fluid into
> the
> thing.
>
> I still heard some air coming out of the master and after 4 or 5 shots, all
> fluid.
>
> Then moved back to Rt. rear wheel, 6 to 7 shots there to get all the air
> out.
> then Lf. rear wheel
> then Rt. front wheel
> last, Lf. front wheel.
>
> I got good flow surprisingly from this simple method of bleeding but I am
> going
> to be making a pressure bleeder for ANY future brake work.
>
> So, get back in the car, the peddle is still traveling way to far down but
> is
> solid.
>
> Next I adjusted the front shoes, they were ok but I got them a little
> closer
> with some drag, that help bring the peddle up a little bit.
> Then went to back brake shoe adjustment and I could only adjust 1 shoe in
> each
> rear wheel as the other adjuster is frozen SOLID.
> E-Brake handle comes up pretty far.   This was the issue all along I
> think.
> They guy who did the brake replacement job some years ago most likely did
> not
> remove the rear brake drums or did not bother trying to free up the frozen
> adjusters and turned the screw out that holds the shoe.  I would say only a
> few
> hundred miles have been put on this car since the brakes were done, so it
> is not
> brake shoe ware down.
>
> So, before I see if they lady will even want me to finish the job to test
> my
> theory.
> If I pull up on the e-brake a bit, just before it catches and step on the
> brakes
> and the peddle is not much higher, that is my issues, the shoes have to be
> pushed to far in the back to stop.  Pulling up on the e-brake will move
> them out
> for me first.
>
> The other option here is the drums are beyond the ware limits, they seem to
> be
> original.  I do not have the tool to measure them.
>
>
> Last thing, on a bug rear wheel 36mm nuts, I seem to remember one of them
> being
> left hand threads, Rt. side maybe?
>
>
>
> Thanks all.
> Bryan Belman, Pt. Pleasant, NJ
> 04 Jetta Wagon TDI PD, 100hp, 5sp -- running :)
> 92 Jetta 1.6 Eco-Turbo Diesel -- running :}
> 82 Diesel Westy 1.9NA -- running :)
> 70 Type 1 stock Beetle -- Not running :(
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "dieseltdi at verizon.net" <dieseltdi at verizon.net>
> To: Bryan Belman <dieselwesty at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 7:56:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] Not Deisel, just brake bleeding hell on a VW bug
> question
>
> Rubber brake hoses.  Trust me on this, if they have any time on them, they
> can
> swell shut.  You can sometimes pull a suction on them with out collapsing
> them
> but often times as soon as pressure from the master cylinder hits them they
> shut
> up tighter than a drum.  If replacing the master cylinder still doesn't
> work,
> then the hoses are the next step.  Actually they are pretty easy to
> replace.  I
> know this from WAY, WAT to many brake jobs on WAY, WAY too many beetles,
> buses
> and Karmann Ghias.  Hayden
>
> On Jul 21, 2010, at 11:02 AM, Bryan Belman wrote:
>
> > Hi all, I work on this ladies 72 super beetle from time to time, 95% rust
> free,
> > like working on history because so much of the car is still good.
> > anyway, I have a 20 hour brake story, what am I doing wrong.
> >
> > starts out with soft to no brakes, OK, I can fix that for you.
> > I have a mighty vac.
> > It is not like the peddle will pump up, it just had little braking.
> > Tried to vac. some fluid out of the lines, got very little and no air.
> > ordered new master as this one was orig.
> >  * Super beetle master cyl. is different, did not know that.
> >
> > Dropped spacer sleeve into the abiss in the body, 1 hour tired to get it,
> > removed peddle assm. 2 hours later I had cut a new one from similar pipe
> stock.
> >
> > Put new master in, did not bench bleed it.
> >
> > nothing, could get very little suction with my might vac. to get good
> flow of
> > fluid from brake res. with fresh fluid in it.
> > tried pumping, nothing, no peddle would come up even after pumping 20-30
> times.
> >
> > **************
> > I did press ALL THE WAY DOWN at times, maybe I blew it out here as you
> are
> >Never
> > supposed to press it all the way?
> > **************
> >
> > Took master off again to bench press after finding this great web sight.
> Rob
> >and
> > Dave's Aircooled sight http://www.vw-resource.com/
> >
> > I pumped it in a can of brake fluid and left it sit for 3 days while I
> was
> away
> > on a vw weekend.
> > came home, put it back in on Monday night, nothing, no change.
> > I would get just enough pressure to stop the wheels from spinning but
> still
> > would get little flow with mighty vac and I would things were looking
> better
> in
> > the back, as soon as I would open the front Rt. side, nothing, could no
> longer
> > get enough to stop the wheels from spinning.
> >
> > Then went back to old fashion way, tried and true.
> > My wife would pump the brake 7-10 times, hold it in, I would open the
> bleeder
> >to
> > hose and clear bottle 1/2 full of fluid.  Close it, she lets up on the
> peddle
> > and pumps again.  OK on the back, when I get up front, nothing, I lose
> all
> > ground on getting any peddle pressure.
> >
> > So, back to square 1.
> > Master cyl is out.
> > I rent a brake pressure bleeder from Advance Auto Parts for FREE.  It
> works as
> >a
> > might vac OR you can fill the container on it and PUSH the fluid into the
> >system
> > with like 10psi, it even has a gauge.  So, I do this to each circuit,
> each
> >wheel
> > and I have a good steam of clean fluid coming out of each bleeder, 1 by
> 1.
> >
> > Today I will get a Replacement super beetle master, but TRW brand, not
> the KMM
> > brand I got before.
> > I Will bench bleed the new master cyl. out of the box before putting it
> on the
> > car, yes.
> >
> > Any suggestions before I pull the trigger.  I can't charge her for more
> then
> > like 6 hours of this ordeal.
> >
> > AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> >
> >
> >  Bryan Belman, Pt. Pleasant, NJ
> > 04 Jetta Wagon TDI PD, 100hp, 5sp -- running :)
> > 92 Jetta 1.6 Eco-Turbo Diesel -- running :}
> > 82 Diesel Westy 1.9NA -- running :)
> > 70 Type 1 stock Beetle -- Not running :(
> > _______________________________________________
> > Vwdiesel mailing list
> > Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
>
> " Those who are willing to sacrifice Liberty for Security, deserve neither
> Liberty nor Security."  Ben Franklin
>
>
> Visit my website at:  http://mysite.verizon.net/resosxp8/mydieselpages/
> Proud owner of:
> 2004 Jetta GL PD TDI, K&N Filter, ScanGauge II
> 1968 Beetle, my latest project, watch for details
> And many, many, many VWs; from a 1947 Beetle (13 Beetles total), to Vans (5
> - 3
> splitties, 2 bay window (both were campers), 1 Vanagon Westy, Rabbits (3),
> Karmen Ghia (1), Jettas (7), Passats (2), Dasher (1), New Beetle (1), and
> Rabbit
> Pickups (3) most now gone but not forgotten.
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