[Vwdiesel] [Audi-VW-Diesels] RE: Cheapo rebuild--Crankshaft
Dave Cook
davevw at yahoo.com
Sat Feb 12 08:43:32 PST 2011
James,
I cannot figure out what you mean by the tool to measure the inside of the cylinders. I went to a couple auto part stores and they could order me one but they were around $125! So I am not sure that is what you were talking about.
I did find a digital micrometer that is intended to measure brake rotors, but it looks like the one part could be stuck down inside the cylinder maybe an inch and a half for $50. I don't know why it couldn't also be used to measure the rod parts too, though since the measuring contact surfaces are further apart than just a digital caliper it would be less convenient.
I am really getting frustrated with the mounting costs of this stupid "cheap" project. I'm tempted to just use the JB weld on the one crank keyway and call it a day...
Dave Cook
--- On Sat, 2/12/11, James Hansen <jhsg at sasktel.net> wrote:
> From: James Hansen <jhsg at sasktel.net>
> Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] [Audi-VW-Diesels] RE: Cheapo rebuild--Crankshaft
> To: Audi-VW-Diesels at yahoogroups.com, "'VW Diesel Group'" <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
> Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 6:23 AM
> Yes indeed. That said, if you’re
> going to build motors, you need to start measuring
> stuff. Measure your crank and rod journals to be sure
> they are good, as in within tolerance so that the
> bearing clearance comes out right, and also to be sure you
> have stock unground cranks in both, so the intended swap
> fits, and you can order the right bearings if need be.
>
>
>
> I would avoid the block that had the catastrophic rod bolt
> torque forgettage/ failure. Sometimes you get side
> loading that puts small cracks in the cylinder wall that
> aren’t immediately apparent, UNLESS you decide to check
> for cracks (dye penetrant, mag particle test, etc...)
>
>
> If you measure up the bores on the two other blocks, pick
> the one that is closest to leaving your piston collection
> with a couple thou clearance (.004 across the diameter if
> possible) Select your pistons to match the holes they go
> into, then weigh them, and match the weights by die grinding
> inside the piston. To get all silly about
> it, then assemble your rods with bearings, measure the ID of
> the bearings and match them to the crank rod journals
> you are using, shooting for min .0015 clearance with
> tolerance to .0025 preferably around .002
>
> Now this is not rocket science, don’t get scared off. You
> can accomplish all this with proper technique, and less than
> 50 bucks worth of tools. You need a good quality
> vernier or digital calliper, and a set of spring loaded
> measuring sticks that spring out to measure across the
> bore of a circle. Good enough callipers are
> 30, good ones are a hundred ish. The springy things
> are under 20. Unless you measure, you really are
> assembling based on faith and hope and failure tends to
> follow close behind.
>
> Ya know, I have NEVER managed to pull off a quick and dirty
> rebuild.
>
> -james
>
>
>
> From: Audi-VW-Diesels at yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Audi-VW-Diesels at yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Dave Cook
> Sent: February-11-11 11:15 PM
> To: Audi-VW-Diesels at yahoogroups.com;
> 'VW Diesel Group'
> Subject: Re: [Audi-VW-Diesels] RE: [Vwdiesel] Cheapo
> rebuild--Crankshaft
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I am reading this as, "you should probably use the Vanagon
> crankshaft, likely the bearings took the brunt of the abuse
> and it is the best bet." Also, "you'd better use new
> bearings if you are going to move one crank to another
> block"
>
> Correct?
>
> Hmm, I suppose as much as I've torn the block down at this
> point, it doesn't matter much which crankcase I use, does
> it?
>
> So much for a quick 'n dirty rebuild...
>
> Dave Cook
>
> --- On Sat, 2/12/11, James Hansen <jhsg at sasktel.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> From: James Hansen <jhsg at sasktel.net>
> Subject: [Audi-VW-Diesels] RE: [Vwdiesel] Cheapo
> rebuild--Crankshaft
> To: "'Dave Cook'" <davevw at yahoo.com>,
> "'Audi-VW-Diesels Group'" <Audi-VW-Diesels at yahoogroups.com>,
> "'VW Diesel Group'" <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
> Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 2:40 AM
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com
> [mailto:vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com]
> On
> Behalf Of Dave Cook
> Sent: February-11-11 7:26 PM
> To: Audi-VW-Diesels Group; VW Diesel Group
> Subject: [Vwdiesel] Cheapo rebuild--Crankshaft
>
> At this point I am starting the doubt the feasability of my
> goal of getting
> the engine together this weekend.
>
> I have three engines in the garage:
>
> 1) Original in the car, threw the rod.
>
> 2) Mostly complete, planning to rebuild. Engine code is
> from a Rabbit
>
> 3) Longblock, engine code from a Vanagon
>
> I got #2 mostly torn down preparing to clean up the block,
> paint it, and
> hone the cylinders. This was slowed by an eye infection and
> a broken water
> pump bolt but both those things are being taken care
> of/taken care of.
>
> I pulled the sprocket off #2 to discover that the woodruff
> keyway has been
> damaged both in the sprocket and in the crank.
>
> So what to do?
>
> __________
> Don't use that unless you have to. JB weld is okay for that
> kind of thing,
> but not preferred, especially if you have a donor sitting
> beside it.
> _____
>
> As you could see in the pics, the crank is damaged at least
> some in the
> in-car motor. I was not planning to tear that apart until
> it was time to
> transfer parts to the new motor, for ease of remembering
> where everything
> goes.
> Pictures are worth a thousand words. Link?
>
> I had basically nixed the Vanagon block (#3), thinking that
> this particular
> engine had worked really hard pushing the Vanagon around
> until the valve
> embedded itself into the head.
> ___
>
> Measure the cylinder bores to know for sure.
>
> What I'm wondering about is if the Vanagon crank would have
> taken much of
> the damage, or if it would have been in the bearings?
> ____
> should be fine.
>
> I presume that it would be a bad idea to use the Vanagon
> crank in #2 with
> #2's bearings. So if I was going to use the Vanagon crank I
> would want to
> use new bearings to put them together. Right?
> _____
> correct, bad idea. Can't successfully use bearings foreign
> to a journal
> they must be new. There's other stuff to a journal. For
> instance, the
> bearing is a tad big, and the cast halves "crush" the
> bearing shells into
> the bearing bore. Without the correct crush, they get loose
> in their home,
> and the crush reduces the I.D a tiny bit, which is allowed
> for on a new
> bearing. No crush, loose bearing eventually, so it turns
> away from the oil
> journal hole, and gets worse.
>
> I haven't gotten the crank all the way out of the block
> yet, but the main
> bearings were looking ok overall so I was hoping to get
> away without having
> to replace them.
> ____
> Bearing shell can only be used in the block it was
> originally installed
> into, just as a rod bearing can only ever be used on the
> rod in which it was
> originally installed..
> -james
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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