[Vwdiesel] starter issue in Diesel Vanagon

[Bryan Belman]

yes, solenoid was replaced.  my pos. battery cable is new in past 2 years and a monster marine application cable.
**  Neg. to ground is the origonal to the van, **
 
I will turn motor counter clockwise first.
I will try replacing it with another Negative ground cable to bell housing from battery (battery was load tested and good)
It it still will not turn then out it comes and I will get another one from AutohausAZ or another place.
 
Like you said, it can only be a few different things here, not that complicated.
thanks
 

Bryan Belman, Pt. Pleasant, NJ
04 Jetta Wagon TDI PD, 100hp, 5sp -- running :<)
92 Jetta 1.6 Eco-Turbo Diesel, 5sp -- running :<)
82 Diesel Westy 1.9NA -- running :<)
70 Type 1 stock Elm Green Beetle -- Under Restoration :-)

From: Andrew .Libby <libbybapa at gmail.com>
To: James Hansen <jhsg at sasktel.net> 
Cc: vwdiesel at vwfans.com 
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] starter issue in Diesel Vanagon

James, I thought he said the repair place replaced the solenoid.

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 8:33 AM, James Hansen <jhsg at sasktel.net> wrote:

> Just by way of reassurance Bryan, if the motor turns over by hand, and the
> starter clunks like it's going in, but no whirry turny stuff, then the
> current isn't getting to the starter motor.  Inside the solenoid itself,
> which is just a big ass relay, there is a floating copper disc on the end
> of
> the core that gets pulled in by the solenoid magnet.  This disc is the
> contact closure that completes the circuit contacts at the solenoid end,
> and
> when starter solenoids are on their way out, can be a real hair puller.
> Since the disc rotates, it will be on a good part, then on a not good part,
> working today, not working tomorrow, working if you try many many times...
> working on the bench, but not when position changes, etc.
> Never discount a locked up engine either.  Mice can carry seeds to fill a
> cylinder overnight- (btdt) through the exhaust pipe, a good quart of wheat
> seeds in two cylinders. Fuel can dribble in and hydraulic lock the thing
> (which is why it was recommended to turn it over backwards- pushes the
> liquid out an exhaust valve if it's there. It's just part of that diagnosis
> chain thing, you make sure the heart is beating before worrying over the
> sprained ankle.
>
> It's most likely the starter solenoid, and if you can just replace that
> would be the cheapest route. I can't remember if you can get the vw
> solenoids apart easily or not to examine them.  Old tractor stuff is pretty
> straightforward, but Bosch can sometimes be ignorant about stuff like that.
> Oh, and Sandy's comment about permanent magnet motors is dead on- I've
> glued
> lots of magnets back on to repair the electric motors when new ones weren't
> easily available (or cheap). When that occurs, usually if you are
> persistent
> you can get them to release some smoke for you to ease diagnosis and
> guarantee the need of a new one. Last one was a stupid ford windshield
> wiper
> motor that is no longer available in a truck I have. Moisture is the main
> culprit in that deal- rust gets behind the glue holding the magnet, and it
> swells until the glue fails.
> -james
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com [mailto:vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Belman
> Sent: June-11-12 8:08 AM
> To: Sandy Cameron; vwdiesel at audifans.com
> Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] starter issue in Diesel Vanagon
>
> yeap, most likely going to have to get another starter, but I was hoping
> the
> starter repair place could have told me this, that is why I gave it to
> them.  I am sure they bench tested it and it worked fine before giving it
> back to me??
> I am sure it will work on the bench after I take it out this evening, but
> in
> the van it is not working???? arggg.  thanks Sandy.  If you want to send me
> the stuff you have on the internal workings of the VW starter, I will read
> it over, thanks.
>
>
> Bryan Belman, Pt. Pleasant, NJ
> 04 Jetta Wagon TDI PD, 100hp, 5sp -- running :<)
> 92 Jetta 1.6 Eco-Turbo Diesel, 5sp -- running :<)
> 82 Diesel Westy 1.9NA -- running :<)
> 70 Type 1 stock Elm Green Beetle -- Under Restoration :-)
>
> From: Sandy Cameron <scameron at storm.ca>
> To: Bryan Belman <dieselwesty at yahoo.com>; vwdiesel at audifans.com
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 9:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] starter issue in Diesel Vanagon
>
> Did you try running it on the bench?
>
> OLD PM starters sometimes develop magnet problems.
>
> I had one on a mercury outboard (same kind of internal ceramic magnets)
> where the magnets started to disintegrate, and along with loosing their
> magnetisim, started to come apart and eventually jammed the rotor.
>
> I've never seen a vanagon setup naked, so don't know how that starter is
> built. The car starters have a planetary gearset inside the motor caged in
> that infernal white plastic the Germans love so much.
>
> All plastics continue to outgas their softeners over the years and grow
> brittle, and eventually crumble. Yours may have grenaded and jammed the
> armature inside.
>
> If your engine is not locked, bench run ( jog) the starter to prove it's
> actually trying to turn.
>
> The fact that your solenoid slams in strongly shows the current is passing
> thru the motor, brushes, etc, which is how the solenoid gets it's pull-in
> current.
>
> I have a description of the 1.6 diesel car starter, and dismantle/assemble
> instructions I can send if you need it.
>
> Sandy
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