[Vwdiesel] fuel use

Tue Jan 8 21:19:57 PST 2013

I've been in the very cold. After -40, there is no cabin heat in a (insert
diesel Vw model number here) car.  Worst temp I've been in with my long
since past A1 1.6 na jetta was -50. At that temp, you can keep a smallish
circle about the size of two basketballs clear on the windshield, defrost on
full, fan no higher than 2.  On setting 3 the incoming air appears to be
indistinguishable from cold air, and is ineffectual at warming the cabin,
you wear what you wore outside.  On fan setting 2 the icicles no longer form
on your moustache.  Now this was driving 100km/h cardboard flat against the
rad core with one inch of exposed core to the wind.  Pulling off the highway
is dramatic.  As long as it takes to read to here from the beginning, the
temp gauge needle is almost at cold, and you'd swear that what seemed to be
no heat to begin with blowing on your face, gets much much colder, and you
start thinking in terms of cabin wind chill factors.  My fuel started
gelling at this temp, thinned it with kerosene, could have used gasoline at
that temp just as well.  When I got out of the car to check if it was
gelling or the magic beans were falling out, I was wearing clothing I had
skiied in at -35. I thought it warm. All the gore-tex wind barrier, polartec
enormofleece, felt pac boots, you name it, I felt Like I stepped out in
winter naked except for wearing a bread bag, which would explain all the odd
crackling and rustling when I moved.  The breeze generated by walking was
enough wind chill that the front side of my legs was astonishingly colder.
I have never been past -50 since, but man it's cold, makes -40 seem warm.
I've always been a ski at any weather type guy, go sledding at -35, etc....
NOTHING prepared me for below -50.  You can't even take a deep breath
without coughing, and you can feel your chest getting cold from it.  The
only part of my body that was toasty warm was my head, because I had a
siberian trooper fur earflap hat on that I wear skiing. Fur is just fine
thank you. I encouraged my wife to buy a practical sheepskin fur coat to
wear for everyday in winter as a result of my cold weather experience, and
complete lack of faith in conventional outdoor "cold weather" gear.

At -40, the A2 could just keep the windshield completely clear, but just
barely. Again, pull of the road, the needle crashes, and you have very
little heat. the heater core can remove more heat than the engine can make.

Parked, you have nothing formal for heat at -40.   At -30 the car stays just
warm, but you better have your lined coveralls on over everything else if
you plan on sitting.  That's why I have all this water heating stuff- warm
drinks help, and give you something to do.  They also keep you hydrated so
your metabolism can give it hell with no restriction.  -20 is nothing, we
put our sandals back on at those temps, and catch some rays to get the
vitamin D stocks back up. 

That's why my road kit has a thin tarp, to wrap around the front of the car,
enclose the engine bay, rad, grill, and as far back on the fenders as I can
get, the rest gets snow from my take apart shovel I have in my ski pack. I
would bank snow around the car, to the rear wheels, then throw snow under
the car to close off the back, so exhaust gets away, but the engine heat is
trapped under the passenger space.   I too, have propane- a couple bottles
usually like you'd use on a portable barbecue, and the smallest screw on
portable propane lantern that coleman makes. Makes substantial supplemental
heat, and doubles as an emergency trouble light, that you can warm fingers
on when putting a fan belt back on after pounding drifts knocked the alt
belt off your A2. BTDT. It will also run all night on one bottle on low, and
make more interior cabin heat than the car.  Just have to remember to have
breathable air, and to light the thing before the propane has insufficient
vapor pressure to run the lantern.

Hope this warms your hearts.
-james

-----Original Message-----
From: vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com [mailto:vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com] On
Behalf Of Tad
Sent: January-08-13 6:23 PM
To: Val Christian
Cc: mailing list
Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] fuel use

Wow, I have to say that this convo makes me glad to live in a place where it
never gets anywhere near 0F, and anything south of +20 is considered "real
effin cold".

A few other thoughts:

   - I wonder if an IDI or TDI would make more cabin heat in extreme cold.
    On the one hand, it seems like the IDI would have more surface area
(from
   the prechamber) to transmit combustion heat into the head that the TDI
   would presumably send out the pipe.  On the other hand, TDIs have gizmos
   like the EGR cooler and coolant glow plugs.
   - TDIs have a fine "snow screen" in the intake pipe (hidden in the
   fender), designed to prevent the filter clogging with fine snow, although
   it mainly seems to get clogged up with dead bugs and leaves(so many
people
   cut it out).  It's bypassed by a springloaded door that opens up under
   heavy suction.
   - I don't see the benefit of carrying a *full* filter... I've done a
   parking lot filter change with nothing but a pair of pliers, screwdriver
   and length of fuel hose (which I attached to the filter outlet and sucked
   on to prime the filter from the tank).
   - You folks from arctic climates, when you talk about the car losing
   temp from just running the heater, is that with the cabin air set to
fresh
   or recirc?
   - On a diesel, you shouldn't have to worry about Carbon Monoxide
   poisoning (blue fingernails) in a snowbound car.
   - It's interesting how various states approach tire chain enforcement
   very differently.  Here in Oregon, having driven over Mt. Hood,
Willamette
   pass, and the Siskyous many times, I've never once seen any sign of
   enforcement when chains are "required".  In California, they set up a
   roadblock and check you before you can even get on the highway.

On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Val Christian
<val at mongo.mongobird.com>wrote:

> One other thing, at 0F, a TDI at idle will not heat the car long term.
> If sunny, it may.  If sunny and still air, it will.  You will need 
> more than just idle, and as the engine gets cold the coolant plugs fire
up.
>
> An IDI will not keep the car warm at -10F at idle, with the blower on low.
> If you pull the cold start (timing advance and throttle increase) out, 
> it may.  I have used cardboard folded to shim the stop on the IP to 
> bump up the "idle" when in cold temps.  My IDIs were all non-turbo and 
> a turbo might be different, but I doubt it.
>
> Also if in a storm be aware of ingestion of powered snow, which can 
> clog the air intake and potentially suck oil, especially on a 1.5l.
>
> A possible approach to the filter matter would be to temporarily 
> remove the filter.  There is normally not much silica in blown snow.
>
> I would also have a cut out milk jug or a shovel, because you will 
> want to keep the exhaust free.  In Watertown NY snowstorms, that can 
> become nearly fulltime work.
>
> If your fingernails and lips are blue, get out of the car...
>
>
>
> >
> > HI Folks;
> >
> >                 Does anyone have any Idea how much fuel per hour a 
> > 1.6 diesel would use at a continuous idle? Just wondering how long I 
> > could
> run
> > the heater if I was stuck in a snow bank in a blizzard. I have to 
> > cross a mountain pass every other weekend from now thru March 
> > including a trip
> from
> > Western Washington to Georgia the middle of February.
> >
> > Brian Decker
> >
> > 1990 VW Fox 2 dr wagon with 1.6 turbo diesel
> >
> > 1983 Mitsubishi Mighty Max 2.3 turbo diesel  4/4 pickup
> >
> > 1981 Dasher wagon 1.6 N/A, 5spd
> >
> > 2 Rabbit pickups one diesel and one gas
> >
> > My wife runs a 1983 VW Rabbit GTI
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Vwdiesel mailing list
> > Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
> >
>
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