[Vwdiesel] Water pump not pumping

[Erik Lane]

So, to follow up on this:

I took the head off. There was too much soot in the coolant, and just too
much pointing to the need to at least get a look.

I had great results! Even with the high miles, there wasn't a ridge in the
cylinders. My finger could almost tell a difference, so maybe a few
thousandths, but nothing major. There was some white residue on the pistons
and valves in a couple of the cylinders. Block and head were both flat with
no warping.

I replaced the head gasket, along with the timing belt/tensioner and other
minor things. I've had it running for a couple weeks now, and it's doing
great! The heater puts out more heat than ever, and the engine temps are
back where they were for years, and holding very steady. It's been running
warm for 3-4 years now, and I changed the thermostat a couple times
thinking I had a bad one.

Only down-side is now that I replaced my dirty air filter there's a bit of
extra rattle coming out the intake. If I hold my hand near the opening, it
goes away. Not too long before this I finally tore out the foam stuff on
the hood because it was soaked in oil. I finally got sick of it. I think
that if it had been gone before I would have heard this, and it's not
abnormal, but I'm not completely sure. I'm thinking about putting a large
radiator hose over the intake to act as a baffle and see how it does. It's
just enough of a rattle that I'd like to get rid of it. It's only at
certain rpms, when it echos just right, I think. Over the entire rpm range,
it probably rattles for 1/3 or less of it.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the input! I just wanted to come back to report
the results, now that it's done.
Erik


On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 6:23 AM, Val Christian <val at mongo.mongobird.com>wrote:

> Just a comment...I have put allot of miles on the 1.5 and 1.6 NA engines,
> and my experience is that I did allot of cylinder head gaskets.  I am not
> sure why.  I had one thermostat failure which took out a 1.6 NA head
> gasket,
> and the 1.5 NA seemed to need new head gaskets, probably one per car,
> every 200k miles (just a wild guess, not intended as a predictive number).
> I also found out that the valve seats tended to pound in on the 1.5 more
> than with any other engine I have experience with.  Perhaps the higher RPM
> they had to be run at to do 70 to 80 MPH.
>
> THe blackness would make me really suspicious of at least an intermittent
> or small leak.
>
> Here's a question to the group: Has anyone used a MityVac to pump down the
> cooling system, and extract gas (air) from the system, when filling or
> doing diagnostic testing?
>
> I haven't tried that yet, but it should work by expanding the gas so that
> it
> works it's way to the overflow bottle.  When the system recompresses to
> atm, then the volume of the gas is reduced, but it is in the overflow at
> that point.  I lack a large cork or modified cap, or I would have
> tried this already.
>
> In Erik's case, I would try such a pump down to eliminate gases, and then
> run an unpressurized cooling system and see if gasses reoccur, and are
> vented.  A latex glove over the overflow will give you an idea of
> outflow, and with a leaky head, the outflow is usually greater with a
> cold engine (in my experience with 1.5 and 1.6 NA VW diesels).
>
> If there is a head gasket breech, then there will be pockets of gas
> in the head which will locally compromise cooling, and can cause the
> symptoms you are seeing.  The only reliable way I know of to resolve
> that is with a head pull.  Some people have forgone the complete head
> pull and just slip in a gasket, and I even did that once.  But pulling
> the head, looking for cracks, perhaps having it pressure tested and
> servicing the valves and seats might be indicated.  If you do that,
> you can move forward with confidence in your head for a while.
>
> Erik, when you are all done, a plastic in-line fuel filter in your
> overflow return line might help get rid of some, but not all the junk
> you may end up accumulating.  I wouldn't keep the filter in forever,
> and for my driving, I would remove it after 4k or so.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >   Ok, you've checked if the impeller is loose on the shaft and it's not.
>  So, it has to pump so long as it's a real impeller.  Someone on the list
> once had an impeller that was a square with bent over corners, that had
> rusted off...  Not much of an impeller to start with.
> >   Next is if you have an air bubble.  Easy to do if you don't fill it
> "correctly."  Pull the top radiator hose off from the radiator.  Fill the
> engine and radiator, through the top hose, going into the engine.  Once
> coolant starts to run out (bend the hose up to fill) then quickly connect
> the hose then finish filling through the reservoir.  Start the car and warm
> it up.  First watch the coolant return flow, into the top of the reservoir.
>  You should have a solid, steady stream, at fast idle, once a few bubbles
> clear out.  If that's good, then put on the cap and finish warming up the
> engine.
> >   Once the thermostat opens, you can shut it down, wait a few minutes
> and top off.  Once again check your return stream.  A slight blurp of air
> now and again isn't perfect bur not unusual.  Constant air is a problem.  A
> leaking head gasket will put out a pretty steady stream of bubbles.  A
> blown one generally blows coolant out of the reservoir, IF it'll run at all.
> >   Be sure to turn the heater to hot at first (to chase out any air) then
> to cold while you warm it up (it'll warm up faster).  After topping off,
> check that all is working.   If you suspect a blown head gasket, try the
> heater as you drive.  If it loses heat then stop and loosen the cap
> slightly.  If you get excessive pressure, (but didn't have bubbles) then
> you likely have a bad cap.  With the cap slightly loosened, see if heater
> function and more or less, normality returns.
> >      Loren
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Erik Lane <eriklane at gmail.com>
> > To: vwdiesel <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
> > Sent: Sat, Feb 15, 2014 11:16 am
> > Subject: [Vwdiesel] Water pump not pumping
> >
> >
> > Hello all,
> > I'm looking for some ideas. I've run out, at least for the moment. This
> is
> > n a 1981 Jetta with a 1.6NA diesel. No modifications to the system - I
> > ust replace parts when they wear out with the stock replacements.
> > Driving home from work one day, that also happened to be about the
> coldest
> > ay around here, I had no heat and the temperature gauge was getting
> > ncomfortably high as I was getting close to home. I was worried that I
> had
> > ost all my coolant or something, but I was close enough to home and it
> was
> > ising slowly enough that I was able to make it without getting anything
> > nto danger zones. (Plus it was cold and snowing with no good spot to
> leave
> > t.) Though I live near Portland, OR, so our cold is not like most of you.
> > t was probably mid 20s.
> > I got home and checked it, and it was full of coolant. After puzzling
> over
> > t and letting it cool I took everything apart, thinking that maybe the
> > mpeller had come off the shaft. That wasn't the case, and even using
> those
> > ubber band strap wrenches to get a really good grip, I couldn't budge it.
> >  tried tapping with a punch and hammer to see if the impeller would move
> > t all on the shaft in or out, and it wouldn't.
> > I replaced the thermostat, cause I had one on the shelf, and it seemed
> like
> >  long shot, but I was running out of ideas. I drove it around a bit after
> > utting it back together, and it acted up again. I looked at it, and the
> > oolant bottle was completely full, but it still hadn't even sucked down
> > ny coolant into the radiator. In the past I've always been able to fill
> > hese cars by only putting coolant in the fill bottle and running the
> > ngine a bit to pump it around the system.
> > I've got it apart again, and I've put the exhaust from a shop vac up to
> the
> > ole in the block to see if there were any restrictions, and coolant came
> > hooting out of every hose that I had open. When I go to drain the system,
> >  open all three hoses down at the water pump, and water comes out of them
> > ust fine. I also have an inline tee in the hose to the heater core that a
> > revious owner installed - it's one of those that comes with a radiator
> > lush kit and has a screw on cap to be able to purge the system. So using
> > hat I know that I have water to the heater core.
> > I've stood there and watched while the engine was running, and the water
> > ump spun just fine. (Well, the system was full of coolant, so I only know
> > hat the pulley was spinning. I wasn't directly watching the impeller.) I
> > evved it up, and there was no hesitation or slipping of the pulley.
> > I've read an idea about a hose collapsing on the input side of the pump
> and
> > estricting the flow, but since there are three of them, I find it hard to
> > elieve that they would all fail at the same time.
> > My dad has suggested a head gasket failure and air lock that is stopping
> it
> > rom pumping, which seems possible, but I want to remove all other
> credible
> > ossibilities before removing the head. I've also dealt with a couple of
> > hese before that had blown head gaskets, and I've never had one stop
> > umping like this.
> > The coolant that came out was pretty ugly black, but not oily. So that
> > ould seem to give some credibility to a head gasket. I've never noticed
> it
> > ook anything other than green before, but it's been so reliable that I
> > aven't had to mess with it much lately.
> > So I think that's all the relevant facts. I'm hoping to learn/benefit
> from
> > he combined experience and knowledge of this list. I'm kind of at my wits
> > nd, and with this engine having unknown miles, but I suspect in the
> > allpark of 400k, I might get in there and decide it needs to be rebuilt.
> > ith where I am in my life right now, it would be best to be able to wait
> 6
> > onths or a year before having to tackle such a big job. So even if I open
> > t up, I'm going to want to do the bare minimum to get by until I have the
> > ime to really do it right, if it gets to that.
> > Thank you everyone!
> > rik
> > ______________________________________________
> > wdiesel mailing list
> > wdiesel at vwfans.com
> > ttp://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Vwdiesel mailing list
> > Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vwdiesel mailing list
> Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
>