Re: S4 vs V8 - Reply, Reply

[John_Ewald.Seattle@xerox.com]

Gary,
I am new to all of this; the Digest, InterNet, ...  I may be the only one with
an S4 in the group - don't know.  It would be interesting to do an inventory; #
and type of car and # of subscribers.

What is the convention for listing cars?  I'm also on a British Cars Digest
where people commonly list cars under their name.  I've never asked: Should
those be current vehicles or "others I have owned" too?

YOUR QUESTIONS:
1.  Pricing is "too high to make money" in the view of several brokers I
contacted as part of the two year search for my '93 Audi S4.  Price ranges (**
Prior to the actual launch of the S6 **) seemed to be '92: $26,000 - $36,000;
'93: $34,000 - $40,000; '94: haven't seen or heard of any sold used yet.  [See
PRODUCT HISTORY below]  Price depends heavily on mileage and condition and
warranty remaining.

Remember that Used cars are Used cars, even if they are Audi S4s with low
mileage and warranty left on them.  Look carefully, get some help to look very
carefully.  Superb cars are out there - don't doubt it.  [see IDEA]

2.  The '92 S4 is the only one with a trip computer as that term is commonly
used.  There is now some feedback through the instrumentation for some of the
functions that were on the computer, but it is not the same.  '93, '94, and '95
do not have the boost feedback and calculations of the '92 S4.

COMMENTS:
The S4 is very different; "What a machine!" is my usual reply when asked by
family and friends -- the comment I put into the Digest earlier.

I spent two years looking for an used S4.  They just did not come up until
recently except at downright goofy prices.   I was told by the dealers that
those who bought S4s initially were 200Q owners who clearly and quickly knew
what they were buying ('92).

I followed through on ads in the papers and magazines (AutoWeek, ...) but
typically found a high mileage car owned by someone who wanted to recover all
they paid in the earlier market of '92 when the cars did not sell widely.

The other big source earlier was through auction brokers for "Program Cars"
that were (supposedly) driven by Audi Execs.  All that I saw had between 12,000
and 19,000 miles and the prices were about the same as the European Delivery
Program prices at the time (without the trip of course).

There was a concern that the "S6" designation would change the market, but
there was a run on the remaining S4s late in the summer with the rumors about
the engine changes that may be introduced to deal with MA and NY and CA.  This
lower output (190bhp vs 227bhp) apparently did not happen, but due to my
business this 4Q94 I have not yet been able to drive one or ask.

The '93 is the only one with the Carbon Fibre interior trim.  I believe there
is also an important difference in the transmission between '92 and '93, but I
don't have my file notes here at work today.  A few people hinted to me that it
will fall more slowly in the market over time - don't buy for that reason, but
if you like it, it can be a factor.

IDEAS
1.  Advertise in your local key newspapers!  Pick a couple papers that are
within a reasonable driving distance to actually go see the car.  Find out the
right day to place an ad (Saturday morning here).  Put a simple ad in the For
Sale column under Audi for the specific car and features and color you want, no
prices: (ie "WANTED: '93 Audi S4 Gary xxx-xxxx").  Let it run one week.
Consider AutoWeek or the magazines ONLY if you can travel to follow up.

I've tried to FOLLOW For Sale ads with various cars for years.  I finally just
stopped - too much misrepresented junk at the other end.  I also stopped buying
new cars.  The thought that has worked was "The guy who wants to sell will
ALWAYS check to paper to see what others are charging.  If they see that you
want, "THEY WILL COME".  They always have, and they have been much closer than
I thought would be true.

2.  Contact "Quattro Club USA" in Minnisota.

QUESTIONS I STILL HAVE OPEN WITH THE GROUP:
How many cars has Audi of America brought in over the years?  I've seen numbers
on the Turbo Quattro Coupe somewhere, and probably totals too, but I don't have
them.  Have the various models been listed out by year?  How many S4s were
brought in for '92, '93, and '94?  Where would I get this information?

AUDI S4 QUATTRO PRODUCT HISTORY:
1992 launch $43,750 (typical street price THEN was $36-39)
227bhp, CFC Air Conditioning
driver's airbag, walnut interior trim, trip computer, ABS on/off

1993 update $46,750 (typical street price THEN was $41-43)
227bhp, non-CFC Air Conditioning
dual airbag, carbon fiber trim, no trip computer, no ABS on/off

1994 change $49,070 (typical street price WAS $44-46, NOW????)
227bhp
back to walnut interior trim (burr walnut)

1995 model change to Audi S6 (similar typical street price as '94)

I've had the whole S4 program characterized to me this way:

The S4 was a very good machine in '92 that didn't sell as many units as quickly
as Audi wanted for the USA.  So for '93 they took off the high warranty cost
items (trip computer, ...), made it match other AWD manufacturers on the ABS
select idea (removed the on/off switch), and jazzed up the interior with "F1"
carbon fiber.  This also bought it closer to the understated feel of the
European car.  The experience after that implied that Americans expected high
gloss rather than spartan understated grey, so back to walnut for '94 (to match
the other manufacturers in this league and justify the $$$).  No changes to the
excellent motor during this whole time.  A great car still.

I understood that there was a change in transmissions from '92 to '93, that
there was a rear suspension "update" for the same dates (also in Dave Lawson's
note).

John Ewald
'93 Audi S4
'67 Austin Cooper S 1275