Re: Freon: R12 vs R134 vs R406A

[steveb@newkla.kla.com (Steven Buchholz)]

> There is a replacement refrigerant for R-12 that is ozone friendly and works 
> in R-12 systems. It was developed (and patented) by George Goble at Purdue.

... I looked at the first page that you give ... my server couldn't open the
second one.  It simply amazes me how we can let political BS cause us to do
*stupid* things.  Clearly noted is that R406A cannot be vented into the atmo-
sphere because it contains CCFCs (whatever they are).  So why is it that R12 
is so bad that we can't manufacture it anymore yet R406A is our salvation?  
(At least it will be the salvation of George Goble at Purdue)
> 
> Initially called ghg-12, it is now called R-406A and has been EPA approved 
> for stationary (non-auto) applications. The inventor has stated that use 
> for autos should be approved in September - as long as new fittings are 
> added to the AC so that there won't be confusion as to what type of gas 
> is in the system.
<<<<SNIP>>>>
> 
> Initial info that I heard reported that it worked better* than R-12...
> 
What is the definition of better?  Is it simply that the thermal cycle per-
mits higher specific heat flow?  What about if we factor cost into the equa-
tion?  How much study has been put into the long term effects of the use of 
R406A?  Considering the time before Freon was worse than cigarette smoke (and 
even when cigarette smoke wasn't considered to be that bad) R12 was an inex-
pensive working fluid that had a lot of benefits that brought us refrigerators 
that could run for 20+ years without leaking a significant amount of refrig-
erant.  Now we have refrigerators that need to have the compressors rebuilt 
due to corrosion in 5-10 years.  Yes, there was an issue with the use of R12 
in cars in that the amount leaking out of the system was unacceptable (in 
hindsight).  Rather than outlawing the R12 we should have required that the 
amount vented to the atmosphere be spec'ed to a certain amount.  I am sure 
that the time and effort that have been put into developing new working fluids 
could have been spent developing compressor technology to support this.  An 
with the active safety features that Audi provides would reduce the risk that 
there would be venting of the system due to an accident.  Whew ... wasn't 
sure how I was going to work Audis into this one ;-)

Good luck and my support to the state that is planning to continue R12 pro-
duction after the ban is supposed to begin (Arizona or New Mexico ?)

Vorsprung durch technik!
Steve Buchholz
s_buchho@kla.com