Re: 4kqs Rear Suspension response

[PDQSHIP@aol.com]

In a message dated 95-10-23 07:13:35 EDT, you write:

You seem to imply that the reason my car is so low is that the springs are
cut, that is not the case. This is a stock set of Fichel & Sachs sport
springs. Sachs engineered three different suspensions for this car.  They
made a full race set, a rally set and a street sport set.

Still doesn't mean that they are right, and I did not imply that your springs
were cut, doesn't matter what you do to lower a car, it is by how much that
is the math.....  You could lower the car with shocks if you wanted too, or
spring compressors, or nylon straps......   1.5 inches lower in the front
will give you bump steer on a 4k, period.....  Is it faster than stock,
prolly....  Is it still a compromise, definitely.....  The math isn't rocket
science........  I have a hard time understanding how one could spend
700-1000+ on a suspension kit, and not understand what EXACTLY it is doing to
the car......   

>>> These are TUV approved springs which means that they were approved
>>>>in Europe as engineered for and safe on this car.  

Which mean they fit the stock spring perches and shocks.......   Engineered
for doesn't mean that it is the right spring height or rate.......

>Eight years ago F & S was  the only company I could find that had any kind
of
suspension mods for my car other than the stock garbage Audi sells.  NOT
being an engineer, I preferred to rely on the product of professional
engineers in Germany and I bought the F & S springs.> hmmmmmm.......

>The amount the car is lowered is estimated.
Why?????  That measurement is easy and is key........  

>The only (<ONLY - hello?>) bump steering I get is
>when I hit a bad transition in the road on a curve at agressive speed.  The
>car does a very slight hop but feels quite comfortable.  The car is very
>predictable in its actions.  It slides very smoothly and predictably when
>pushed beyond its limits.  A benefit of the front being lowered more is that
>I actually get some oversteer ...much preferred to the usual plowing.>

Yes, and some homework could have gotten you the characteristics you were
looking for without the compromises you got....  There is no necessity for
bumpsteer on this car, if you got it you got it which means before you even
reach the limits of the spring compression, your suspension geometry is
already out of whack, ackermann effect and bumpsteer, AND SLOWER than a
properly set-up car.......

>EXACTLY how much is the question and the math is the answer
>I was not replying to advocate exactly how much Ian should lower his car.
>I was replying to tell him I thought the car was a far better handling car
>lowered and stiffened.
Not sure your post reflects that........

 Lowered and stiffening by how much is the key......   To say it was better
handling, I might differ, your posts showed a lot of compromises for what you
did, IT"S IN YOUR POST......

>>>This suspension has changed the car from an over weight snow car to a very
agressive and FUN car.  I have enjoyed this suspension for eight years, at
Seattle International Raceway, Laguna Seca and soon Sears Point.  If I hadn't
improved the suspension to where I could enjoy the car, maybe  the M3 I've
got on order would have been in my garage a year ago.
>>>>> 
 And when you drive the M3, you will learn what the proper set-up is on a
"stiffer" car......  BMW did their homework, and it is NOT rocket
science.........  I have my doubts that the 4k will get much seat time after
you acquire your new toy.....    Putting the car on a track with the proper
set-up doesn't mean it will be any slower at the track (your M3 will show
this).....  I go to the track on a regular basis, and have seen and driven
way too many 4k\5k/q's with the suspensions tweeked, that show that you are
not the only one that let someone else engineer their car.......  Do the
benefits you gained outweigh the compromises.....  You think so.....  Will a
properly tuned and higher riding 4kq with the same tires outrun you on the
track, yep.........   By your own post.........


>>>PILOT LIGHT ON (very small flame):
I have enjoyed the quattro list for the last year I've been on it.  During
that time I've posted my experiences to try to pass on what information I
have.  While responses are often very friendly,  I have seen the tone of the
group get less so over time (similar to the person who posted the apology
regarding the Dave Barry item).  It is responses like this one from you
(PDQSHIP) that make me question whether I wish to continue on this list.
>>>>>
 Offense intended, no.....   A guy that has some experience on setting up
cars, yep.....  My opologies for causing you any undo ackermann.......  And
in your year of tenure on this list (interesting that my files go back to Dec
of '94, and I find you not on THIS list often) you should find plenty of
posts from this author that just MIGHT indicate I know what I am talking
about some of the time, and don't waste much bandwidth (maybe here) on waxes
and tar remover....  You will also find that a list with as many post as this
one gets a day will have less PC responses and more task oriented responses,
and very little patience for error (IMO no opologies necessary on that one,
btw)......  And based on the fact that the news of this group is getting more
publicity, I'm not sure the responses won't get more to task.....  There is
always the C&D list.........    IF you reread what you posted regarding
suspensions, and really read it, from a technical standpoint, you really
offered little for this guy to go on (well actually you did, in the
compromise part).......  And for that, I offerd some more objective reasoning
to the lower and stiffer.....  IF you think it was spitting gasoline, this
was a lame one compared to others I've done.........  If you WANT to fix what
you did 8 yrs ago, there is the expertise right on this list, and in the
archives......

Eibach Advertisement to sell lowered springs:  "Uncool (insert 325 stock),
Cool (insert 325 lowered)"........   Where is the math???????   Not sure your
post used a different argument.....


Scott
PDQSHIP@aol.com