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quattro-digest Saturday, 18 January 1997 Volume 04 : Number 114
*
* Welcome to the digest version of the quattro list.
* See the end of the digest for unsubscribe info.
* In this issue:
Re: A4 1.8T mods & I'm back
4kq rear propeller shaft
Battery Sizes re: 84 5ks
Re: removing taillight (tracing battery drain)
Re: Cold air from the heater
Re: Windshield stuff, gas?
Re: More Dumb Lighting Qustions...
Re: Audi recommendation wanted
Re: oil temp - 200Q
Re: oil temp - 200Q
Re: A4 1.8T mods & I'm back
Re: Slushes...
Re: Small question??
OXS
RE: Making Audi A Player
Re: Ur-quattro question.
Re: Headlight washers
Re:brake light turn red on 1990 COUPE Q
Re: OXS
Re: More Dumb Lighting Qustions...
Re: Tire Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:01:11 -0800
Subject: Re: A4 1.8T mods & I'm back
>getting in excess
>of 15 psi in all five gears. WEE!!
How do you do that? sounds incredible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
15 PSI in first gear?!!!!!!
15PSI in second gear?!!!!!!
please explain?
TIA
Avi Meron
86 5Kcstq with 16PSI at 3,4,5
------------------------------
From: Mason Bender <mbender@freenet.columbus.oh.us>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:57:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 4kq rear propeller shaft
Dear Quattrophiles-
I know many people have met with the demise of the center bearing in the
propeller shaft to the rear diff.
Could someone please take a moment and describe the symptoms of the failure?
I think I am probably at the begining stages of this, however I am not
sure. Currently my 4kq (126k) whines from the middle of the car. The
sound is especially noticable inside the car (barely noticable outside).
The whine is only audible in cold weather, and is vehicle speed dependant.
TIA for any info,
Mason B
------------------------------
From: Sdbigelow@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:11:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Battery Sizes re: 84 5ks
I've got a 84 5ks. Anyone on the esteemed list know the largest battery that
will fit? It's under the back seat. The (frozen) one that's in there now is a
5-year-old group 41 Exide, no vent.
It was -29C today...brrr.
Also, is the thermotime switch on my '82 Coupe likely the same one that's
malfuctioning on the '84? Will they swap?
TIA,
Steve Bigelow
Ottawa ON
84 5ks
82 coupe
------------------------------
From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:23:49 -0800
Subject: Re: removing taillight (tracing battery drain)
>I believe the adhesive resists these
>impact-type forces, and to release them you will need to break an edge
>loose and use constant force.
It is not really an adhesive it is more like a sticky rope , just pound on
it with a rubber mallet and they will pop out. The reason you had trouble
removing them was because the sealant dried a bit and got stuck, (I removed
many including some from older Audis).
Good luck
Avi Meron
86 5Kcstq
------------------------------
From: human <human@nh.ultranet.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 21:27:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Cold air from the heater
- -- [ From: human * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
> A new heater core is cheap, but what's involved it getting to it.
The heater core isn't too difficult to get to if its like my (82) coupe.
There are instruction in the Haynes manual I think, cheap and easy to get.
The hoses come thru the firewall high in the passenger footwell, and connect
to the front right end of the core. It has a plastic end cover and pulls
right out. I tore out my remaining AC components (the evaporator is in that
neighborhood) which might have made it easier for me, but I don't think the
AC was actually in the way.
Couple of hours on your back in the pass. footwell should do it. Remove the
seat to make it easier. One bolt and out she slides. Don't forget a pan to
catch the coolant in the core and hoses so it doesn't spill into your car.
Might be worth replacing the two hoses thru the firewall at the same time,
and use new stainless steel hose clamps. As with any cooling system work,
examine the condition of the rest of the components at the same time (get
the radiator flushed and tested?) HTH
- --
Huw Powell
HUMAN Speakers
http://www.thebook.com/human-speakers
There's nothing strange about an ax with bloodstains in the barn;
There's always some killing to be done around the farm.
Tom Waits
------------------------------
From: human <human@nh.ultranet.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 21:27:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Windshield stuff, gas?
- -- [ From: human * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>I can buy a gallon of gas for $ 1.15
Only because of geopolitics.... Wait til it runs out!
I think the distribution is more complex (and seasonal) with the w/w fluid.
You're paying for a lot of handling and a couple of mark ups.
Required Audi content? um, There was word of squirters alone not being able
to keep hi wattage lenses clean, say it ain't so? One of my fantasies is to
install headlamp washers in the bumper of my 82 coupe. (and a cup holder)
U Boat Commander (ret)
- --
Huw Powell
HUMAN Speakers
http://www.thebook.com/human-speakers
There's nothing strange about an ax with bloodstains in the barn;
There's always some killing to be done around the farm.
Tom Waits
------------------------------
From: AUDIDUDI@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:22:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: More Dumb Lighting Qustions...
> PS: Wasn't someone working on using BMW headlamps and changing the grill
> work? Eric?
I am ... tried using modified 530i headlight clusters but they didn't fit as
well as I'd hoped. I've got some patterns made to fold up some aluminum but
have been too busy playing with my "new" toy to get around to doing it ... I
probably won't have any time on my hands for the next few months (I'm in the
tax biz...) but will keep everyone posted as work progresses.
_ _
/ l l o l \ l o Jeffrey Goggin
/__l l l / l l l l l l / l l AudiDudi@delphi.com
/ l l_l \_l l l__/ l_l \_l l http://people.delphi.com/AudiDudi
------------------------------
From: AUDIDUDI@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:22:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Audi recommendation wanted
> I have an 89 100 automatic (With 120k mi) and my Mother drives a 91 100
> with the automatic. Perhaps it is because I am used to the 3 speed, but I
> think the four-speed gearing is horrible. Acceleration just seems sloooow
> IMHO.
I agree ... the 4-speed is a POS! It never seems to find a gear that makes
it happy and it's forever shifting up-and-down ... acceleration from a dead
stop is also very sllooowwww. I seriously thought about backdating mine to
the 3-speed from my '87 5k but ended up selling the car to my father ... he
tolerates the 4-speed but, overall, likewise prefers the 3-speed.
_ _
/ l l o l \ l o Jeffrey Goggin
/__l l l / l l l l l l / l l AudiDudi@delphi.com
/ l l_l \_l l l__/ l_l \_l l http://people.delphi.com/AudiDudi
------------------------------
From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:35:31 -0800
Subject: Re: oil temp - 200Q
>The oil temperature gauge in my '89 200Q never gets above
>80 Celcius - the first mark on the gauge.
Too cold! should be over 100 C
Avi Meron
86 5Kcstq
------------------------------
From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:42:53 -0800
Subject: Re: oil temp - 200Q
>80 Celcius - the first mark on the gauge. What temperatures
>Sounds about right - that's the highest my 91 200 gets to w/20W-50
>Amsoil except for during track driving on hot days.
NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!
80C is 176F way, way, too cold!!!!!!!!!
Avi Meron
86 5Kcstq
------------------------------
From: steveb@falcon.kla.com (Steven Buchholz)
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:52:42 -0800
Subject: Re: A4 1.8T mods & I'm back
> >getting in excess
> >of 15 psi in all five gears. WEE!!
> How do you do that? sounds incredible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 15 PSI in first gear?!!!!!!
> 15PSI in second gear?!!!!!!
> please explain?
... left foot braking ;-)
Steve
s_buchho@kla.com
San Jose, CA (USA)
------------------------------
From: human <human@nh.ultranet.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 21:58:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Slushes...
- -- [ From: human * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
> i.e. Audi slushboxes don't seem to last very long and are
> VERY expensive to fix. [snip] What experiences do other
> people out there have and how much can I expect to spend
> on having the tranny rebuilt in case it does go south?
My 83 5kt 3 speed lost R and 3, cost 1200 to get a "rebuilt" one installed
at local transmission specialist. Not counting towing and rental. My Ford
F250 C-6 cost 750.00 to have rebuilt, plus a transmission oil cooler
installed basically at cost. HTH
- --
Huw Powell
HUMAN Speakers
http://www.thebook.com/human-speakers
There's nothing strange about an ax with bloodstains in the barn;
There's always some killing to be done around the farm.
Tom Waits
------------------------------
From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 19:01:06 -0800
Subject: Re: Small question??
>The cold start injector is activated only during starting, and only
>when it's cold (controlled by the thermo time switch).
Ti Kan,
Do you know where is the thermo switch located? on a 5K.
TIA
Avi Meron
86 5Kcstq
------------------------------
From: human <human@nh.ultranet.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 22:11:39 -0500
Subject: OXS
- -- [ From: human * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
The coupe (aka golden submarine...) now has an oxygen sensor again! Got a
$7 fitting from a local speed shop, drilled a nasty old hole in the crude
custom pipe behind my 4kq downpipe and welded that sucker in. Installed new
Bosch 3 wire sensor, and hooked up the signal wire. I have to decide where
to tap in for the heater wire - I'd like to avoid using a relay but I'm sure
the existing circuits can't handle the load. Without my measuring it,
anyone know what the current draw is? Two possible taps would be the at the
coil or the warm up regulator (second preferable). The fuse box is probably
the proper place to go for my Ignition 12 volts but I'm lazy. And its cold
(+5 F) out!
I can look forward to better than 22 mpg, I hope, once I readjust the
mixture...
Boy the Audi loves the cold. More molecules of the old O2 per liter I guess
------------------------------
From: Mark Nelson <mnelson@brls.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:21:47 -0800
Subject: RE: Making Audi A Player
I would like to clarify some points here.
1. VWAG had a controlling interest at Porsche from late 1968 to 1977.
They still have 1/3 of the company under their control. The family has
always been involved, but they have not always been in control.
2. The 2.0L Horizontally Opposed six concept was created in late 1960,
the first prototype cars were developed in late '61/early '62. My
father had 911 chassis #17, the oldest known 911 in existance (was used
on the European automotive show circuit by Porsche). He sold the car ~4
years ago to a man in the Netherlands who is currently restoring it.
3. As far as the Quattro Drive System was concerned, the system was
originally developed at Weissach. Audi contracted out a lot of the work
to Porsche, and it was rumored Audi also helped Porsche in their
drivetrain developments (anyone remember the Rothmans 911 driven by S.
Al Hajri, co-driven by John Spiller, which won Paris-Dakar in '84).
4. Getting the Quattro System to work on a Porsche is NOT as difficult
as you think. All it requires is swapping the differentials upside
down, and you essentially have system that works on a rear powered car.
Torque split has very little to do with it.
This is all information relayed from someone who has owned in excess of
200 Porsches (used to be in the restoration and racing business) over
the past 30 years, and is very good friends with Jurgen Barth (head of
Porsche Racing), and Vic Elford (who was one of Porsche's most succesful
drivers of all time).
I don't know the full extent of your knowledge or the FULL Porsche
history, but if you don't believe me I have the FULL documentary videos
created by the Porsche factory, to go along with what I have just
stated.
If you have questions, please feel free to email me.
Best Regards,
Mark Nelson
mnelson@brls.com
>From: ATTDCS!TMBWPO1!sjagernaut@dcstm1.attmail.com (Stephen Jagernauth)
>Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:46:00 +0000
>Subject: Making Audi A Player
>
>Mark Nelson <mnelson@brls.com> wrote on Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:11:24 -0800:
>
><snip>
>
>>To jump ahead in time, the Piech family who owns VW bought Porsche in
>>the mid/late seventies and they were really the ones that helped Porsche
>
>Dr. Ferdinand Piech is the son of Louise Piech, Ferry Porsche's sister, and
>that makes his grandfather
>the original Dr. Ferdinand Porsche so the family ties are there. Piech
>worked at Porsche in the '60s and avidly supported racing as the way of
>improving the breed. One of his accomplishments is his design of the
>original 2.0L 911 6cyl boxer. Never heard of VW owning Porsche. Porsche
>has always been
>family-owned.
>
>>be successful during the seventies and early eighties, until the Porsche
>>family bought back Porsche in the late '80's.
>
>1/3 of Porsche's stock is publicly traded. The rest is owned by the
>Porsche/Piech families.
>
>>The Porsche Horizontally
>>opposed 4-cylinder (used in the 356, 912, 914, 924) is very similar to
>>he 4-cylinder that was put in the VW beetle. Many of the components
>>used between VW and Porsche were common to both cars.
>
>The 356 used a VW aircooled engine, the 912 the same motor as the 356SC.
>The 914 used a VW Type IV engine. The 924 had a VW-designed block with
>Porsche-designed head and built by Audi and is an inline 4cyl. It was
>basically the same engine used in the Audi 100 and VW van in the 70s. The
>914 was a joint venture between VW and Porsche and was marketed in Europe as
>a VW and in the US as a Porsche.
>
>>There has been a lot of development that each company shares, and Audi
>>actually was the one to help Porsche most recently in the development of
>>the 959 drivetrain, Carrera 4 drivetrain, and the '96 + turbo
>>drivetrain. VW was actually the company that built the Porsche 924 and
>>944 for Porsche.
>
>This is absurd! VW was not involved at all and Audi's involvement was
>limited to assembling the PORSCHE-DESIGNED 924/944 in their Neckarsulm
>assembly plant. The various drivetrains used in the AWD Porsches are very
>different from Audi's Quattro system and were designed in-house at Weissach.
> I have an article written by the chief Porsche designer for their 959/C4.
> Audis awd have a fwd-bias, Porsches have a rwd-bias, in terms of
>torque-split front-to-rear.
>
>Hope this clears up some confusion.
>
>Regards,
>
>Steve Jagernauth ----------> sjagernauth@attmail.com
>Audi 5k X 3 and 1 Porsche,
>2 ex-Porsches, 2 ex-VWs
------------------------------
From: EICHSTEV@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:30:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Ur-quattro question.
In a message dated 97-01-16 22:20:15 EST, you write:
> The question that's in my mind is at what exact point did Audi
>start putting the fuse box under the hood i.e is there any '83 cars
>with such set-up. Has anyone done a conversion and is it hard i.e.
>wire by wire procedure?
Audi started putting the fuse box under the hood in '84.
I will be doing the swap when the 3B 20V turbo goes in. I have the complete
wiring harness from an '86 Coupe GT with some additions from a 4kq and the
'91 200 engine harness. The fuse box itself will actually be from a '91
200q, not much difference there, but some. Also included in the swap will be
the infamous digital dash (flame away quattro fans) to keep with my goal of a
'91 quattro clone. I personally like the things. Seriously. Ever look at
the instruments in an F1 car?
But I digress, the underhood fuse box swap is possible, but I wouldn't
recommend it unless the wiring in your ur q was burned or severely butchered.
I would estimate about 20 hours labor and $200 in parts from a reasonable
salvage yard to do the swap as well as all the manuals.
HTH!
Steve Eiche
'82 Not So Ur q 3B2B
------------------------------
From: Porsray@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:42:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Headlight washers
I assume you have a '88 -91 90? if it is like my Coupe Quattro, are two
separate reservoirs. Headlite reservoir is just behind left headlite in
engine compartment.
Window washer reservoir is -unfortunately - inside fender; fender has to come
off to get at it.
Ray Calvo (porsray@aol.com)
1990 Coupe Quattro
In a message dated 97-01-17 17:37:18 EST, you write:
<<
From: "Michael Benno" <mbenno@northstar-mn.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:16:55 -0600
Subject: Re: Headlight washers
If you figure out how to get at the resivoir, let me know... I have a
cracked one and I need to get at it.
>>
------------------------------
From: RELAYER@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:57:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re:brake light turn red on 1990 COUPE Q
Peter,
My car is doing the exact same thing....the light comes on after panic stops.
This is the begining of the end of the bomb as I've heard. Mine has been
doing it for a while, and once it starts, you have a year or so (mine has
been doing it for 7 months).
/\ _I Christian J. Long
/ \ I_I I_I I Orlando, Florida, USA
University of Central Florida
Class of 1994
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1990 Coupe Quattro Red/Black, K&N cone, BBS wheels, 80K
1990 90 Gold/Tan, 70K, LOOKING FOR REAR WING SPOILER
Past Audis:
'80 5KT '84 Coupe GT '85 Coupe GT '87 Coupe GT2.3 '875KCST(was Dad's)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
From: kappa@travelin.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:10:28 -0800
Subject: Re: OXS
On Fri, 17 Jan 97, human <human@nh.ultranet.com> wrote:
>
>-- [ From: human * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>
>The coupe (aka golden submarine...) now has an oxygen sensor again! Got a
>$7 fitting from a local speed shop, drilled a nasty old hole in the crude
>custom pipe behind my 4kq downpipe and welded that sucker in. Installed new
>Bosch 3 wire sensor, and hooked up the signal wire. I have to decide where
>to tap in for the heater wire - I'd like to avoid using a relay but I'm sure
>the existing circuits can't handle the load. Without my measuring it,
>anyone know what the current draw is? Two possible taps would be the at the
>coil or the warm up regulator (second preferable). The fuse box is probably
>the proper place to go for my Ignition 12 volts but I'm lazy. And its cold
>(+5 F) out!
>
>I can look forward to better than 22 mpg, I hope, once I readjust the
>mixture...
>
>Boy the Audi loves the cold. More molecules of the old O2 per liter I guess
>
>
Seems to me you asking for trouble if you start tapping wires haphazardly.
Sure, you can tap into your coil because its easier and its cold. But who knows
how cold it will be when she fries herself and leaves you on the roadside.
Sorry, just anal about wiring I guess...
- -Stott Hare
'84 4Ksq (black _& blue_, have turbo, waiting to install)
Biddeford, Maine
Work: where you can find me far to often
harest@allenbrook.iix.com
On the road: where I'd rather be...
kappa@travelin.com
------------------------------
From: dmiller@iea.com (Doug Miller)
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:30:50 -0800
Subject: Re: More Dumb Lighting Qustions...
Yes, Hella lights are king of the night. As for combo lights, all of the
ones I've seen are average at best. Because they build both lamps into one
unit, and they are trying to keep the unit manageable from a size
standpoint, performance suffers as they are both shrunk to fit. Your best
bet for serious lights are round, full size purpose built units. A short
story: Many years ago I decided to get more serious about cycling. Some of
my friends had bought mountain bikes, others were roadies. Like an idiot,
I thought I could buy one bike and do both, so I purchased a cross trainer
(road frame/rims, with knobbies and flat bars). Couldn't hang with my buds
on the road, bent stuff whenever I rode with my buds offroad. Today I have
a road bike, a mountain bike, and a dusty cross trainer. The moral: Get
lights designed for your needs, not something that claims to meet several
needs. When you decide what you're looking for, I'd be glad to advise on
models/bulb outputs, and provide phone numbers and stuff.
Happy motoring!
Doug Miller
dmiller@iea.com
>I understand the general concensus is that Hella Driving Lights are king.
> Has anyone played around with companies making fog/driving light combo
>units? It seems like a neat idea, but perhaps I am not considering all I
>need to know. Help...?...
>
>Robert Dupree
>'87 5000CS Quattro
>
>PS: Wasn't someone working on using BMW headlamps and changing the grill
>work? Eric?
>
>Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.
> Will Rogers
------------------------------
From: dmiller@iea.com (Doug Miller)
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:30:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Tire Question
>Hi Guys,
>
>Can anyone give me some advice as to what sizes of wheels/tires can fit on
>a 94 100 CSQ without adversely affecting power steering? I've been told
>that putting say 225s could be detrimental to the car...is that true? I
>was thinking that I'd be conservative and move from the 195/65-15 to the
>205/55-16, but I wouldn't mind experimenting with slightly sportier
>tires/wheels.
>
>As a side note, I have to say that I've never driven a sweeter 5-speed
>manual than the one in the 94 100CSQ I just bought; I fell in love with it
>immediately. It was very different than the transmission in my 500TQ (of
>course, my 5000 had 3 times as many miles :). I must admit I miss the
>rush of the turbo, though :).
>
>Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me!
>
> -Mark.
>
> ============================================================
> | MARK BASSAM SALEM EMail: msalem@cs.utah.edu |
> | Phone: (801) 898-8710 HTTP://www.cs.utah.edu/~msalem |
> ============================================================
Mark,
I'm sure you'll get a lot of responses to your tire query, as it is a
fairly subjective area. As for what will fit, I'd err on the cautious side
and try to go with close to factory dimensions for overall tire diameter
and width. Some of the mail order folks (Tire Rack notably) can give
various rim/aspect ratio/width ratios that keep you close. From a speedo
accuracy and acceleration standpoint, this is a good strategy. I've had
friends put bigger rubber on cars and tell me point blank they were
noticably slower (your tires are simply a lever from the axle to the
contact point - lengthen the lever and you reduce the engine's mechanical
advantage in accelerating the car). Also, tires that "fit" under the
fender may be just fine until you are fully loaded one day and in a hurry
to bounce out of the Taco Bell driveway ($crunch!).
As for power steering stress, I'd be surprised if the added stress would
noticeably shorten the system's life, but wider tires will increase turning
effort, especially at a dead standstill (which you shouldn't do anyway)
causing added wear.
A wider tire will also change the shape of the contact patch from an oval
with its longer axis in the direction of travel more toward an oval with
its longer axis at right angles to the direction of travel. This will cause
added steering inputs from bumps, cracks, uneven pavement, etc and may
reduce your satisfaction with your Q's rock steady high speed stability.
I don't know what your goal is for the tire upgrade. Appearance, quieter
tires, dry cornering, wet cornering, and ride quality are just a few of the
often divergent impacts of tire changes. If you are looking for more dry
grip for instance, I'd suggest you focus on finding a stock sized tire with
a gummy rubber compound and more solid rubber tread blocks than the ones
you have (the more and smaller tread blocks, the more tread squirm and
subsequent heat buildup).
In sum, I have seen a lot of people excited about a wider tire upgrade that
improved transient response and cornering, who later wished they hadn't
done it. After a few thousand miles of tar strip thumps and previously
quiet interior trim pieces that now buzz and rattle, they've had it. As a
former Product Planner for both GM (Vette, Lotus, Fiero) and Lexus, I can
say that the factories put a great deal of research into choosing the size
tires that end up on the car. Staying close to their choices can often be
a smart move unless your goal is so important you are willing to give up
daily drivability.
As for your 5 speed, I am extremely jealous. My Quattro was unavailable
with a manual (97 A6 Wagon), and I would have loved that choice. Can't have
everything, I guess..
Doug Miller
dmiller@iea.com
------------------------------
End of quattro-digest V4 #114
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