to: 5000 anti-roll bar respondants

[brv@chrysler.com]

     Guys,

     I've received plenty of responses regarding the pursuit of building
     some bars for the 5K.  Many of you have added some thoughts which I
     have found very insightful.  Let me elaborate on what has been
     mentioned:

     Many of you have expressed concern about increasing the understeer
     balance inherent in the stock setup .  I certainly agree.  The
     addition of a bigger front bar without a rear bar MAY increase
     understeer.  Many times with a Macphearson strut front suspension the
     camber change due to body roll is very significant and the resulting
     change in tire contact patch decreases grip.  Sometimes limiting the
     body roll with an appropriate sized bar in front will DECREASE
     understeer because the amount of camber change is reduced.  The plus
     of better tire contact outweighs the negative of increased lateral
     weight transfer.  This may or may not be the case with our cars.

     A rear bar might also be a reasonable solution.  This obviously
     requires more engineering due to the mounting requirements.  Increased
     rear roll stiffness would shift the balance in the desired direction
     and also help control camber change.  Any thought on mounting would be
     greatly appreciated.

     And, of course, two bars engineered together would be awesome.  We'll
     see how this goes.

     If you read ADDCO's catalog, you will see many cars that use the
     swaybar as a suspension locating device.  In many of these
     applications, they just add a second non-locating bar to the front so
     that they don't need to figure out how to build an OEM variety.  I
     still haven't gotten specific with them so I still don't know what
     they would want to do.

     Costwise, I'm guessing well under $200 per bar. Please don't lynch me
     if it is not.  That's the price I would be willing to pay.

     What I was hoping to do to design this setup was to model the
     Quattro's suspension using Bill Mitchel's software here at work.  (I
     need to learn a few more tricks anyway and we have many people who can
     help me through it).  What this process requires is accurate data on
     suspension parameters such as camber curves, toe curves, spring rates,
     arm lengths, roll centers, roll axis, center of gravity, bushings
     etc...  I am willing to measure some of this myself but I was hoping
     someone out there (Eric F.??) may have done some of this already.  My
     car is lowered w/ H&R 's so my data will not correlate with the
     majority of you who reponded.  If anyone has some of this or knows
     where to get it, please tell me!  Otherwise, anything we do will be a
     trial and error SWAG.

     I'm sorry I don't have the time to respond to everyone personally at
     the moment so I hope I will continue to hear from people interested in
     the project.  Perhaps we might want to start sharing concepts on the
     list so everyone can get an idea of what we are trying to do.

     I'll be offline (Easter at the parents house in Scranton, Pa.)until
     Tuesday so don't panic if I don't respond for a few days.

     Keep those ideas coming!!


     Brian Vinson
     86 5KCSTQ "looking for that magic state of neutral handling"