5 bolt hubs on a 4kq (Long)

["Bruce Bell" <bbell@bbell.com>]

> From: Luis Marques <marques@rtis.ray.com>
> To: quattro@coimbra.ans.net
> Subject: Re: G-60 calipers for sale
> Date: Thursday, November 06, 1997 8:01 AM
> 
> Now here is something I have been wondering about for a
while.  Can one
> put the hubs off a 5kt (5 x 112mm) on a 4kq and thus use
any wheels
> and/or rotors available for a 5kt/200/s4 etc.?  Is the
inside diameter
> of the wheel bearings the same? Width?  Are the wheel
offsets
> compatible? How about the brake rotors? 
> 
> Luis Marques
> '87 4kcsq
> marques@rtis.ray.com
> 
> "Bruce Bell" <bbell@bbell.com> wrote:
> > Mine's ('87 4KCSq) an AAN to be with coil overs and 5
bolt
> > hubs if I can find that elusive rear rotor.

OK, I'll share what I've learned and outline my plan for
the rest of you folks to scrutinize and critique.

First, my thanks to Brendan Rudack for inspiring my
expensive adventure :-).  It all started when I saw his
coil over kit and G60 brakes at Pikes Peak last July. I
wanted more performance from my suspension without lowering
the car and he had it. Eibach, BTW, "...sells lowering
springs" according to the tech. rep. I talked to and there
was no hope of a performance spring that allowed stock ride
height. I also wanted the G60's. 

There are two ways to upgrade the 4Kq to G60's; 1) Use the
front struts from an '88-'89 (5cyl. only in early '88) Audi
80 or 90.  as documented by Ben Howell and Brendan in
earlier posts. Or, 2) use Todd Candey's brackets made for
the 4Kq front strut with a 5KTq rotor drilled for the 4X108
pattern.

I had decided to use Todd's brackets until I started to
look for a reasonably, IMHO, good looking 15" wheel for the
4 X108 pattern. TSW has no Hockingheim Rs any where in
north America and none on the way. BBS has discontinued
this bolt pattern for their wheels; though Tire Rack said
they had a few of the RX style left in 17X7. At this point
I made the commitment to go with 5 bolt hubs. (I hope -
more on that later)   Now, there is absolutely no good
performance reason, I can think of, to go with the 5 bolt
hubs on a 4Kq. But; not needing a good reason, here is my
plan and problem.

I'll use the front struts from the 88-89 Audi for the G60's
(later ones use a different, $$, ball joint). These struts
also use the same 75 mm OD wheel bearing as many of the
turbo cars and 4Kq rear struts use. Stock 4Kq front struts
use a 68 mm bearing. With 4 new bearings, I can now just
press in the hubs. In the rear, the 4Kq axle will fit the
hub perfectly. (Thanks Todd). In the front, forget it,  the
axle ends are different. Well, guess what, it seems that
the 4Kq rear axles are the same as those on the Urq (my
mechanics parts book) and the front and rear axles on an
Urq are the same, just swapped left and right (Thanks
Phil). Since the 4Kq uses the same diff. and Trans. as an
Urq then it follows I can put a set of rear axles on the
front, right?  

The front rotors from a 5KTq will work as they have all the
correct dimensions. It is possible that some shimming of
the carrier may be necessary for correct alignment of the
caliper. 

Finding usable rear rotors, on the other hand is still my
problem with this conversion.  Like the 5KTq and Urq the
4Kq has a 245 X 10 mm rear disk.  The Urq though has a 50
mm hat size (distance from wheel mounting face to brake
surface) and The 5KTq has, according to one source a 39 mm
and another source a 36.5 mm hat size. The 4Kq uses a 30 mm
hat size. The problem is, as the hat size gets bigger, the
disk gets closer to the strut housing and there is only 12
mm to play with on the 4Kq. As you can see I'm still
looking for confirmation of a rotor with the correct, I'll
take close, hat size. 

Another issue I have not addressed yet: Are the 5 bolt hubs
the same thickness as the 4 bolt hubs? If not, will I have
problems getting a wheel and tire under my rear fenders
given the change in offset?

I've been holding off on buying all the parts to do the
conversion until I'm satisfied in my mind I can definitely
make it work. My Coil over kit with Koni yellows sits in a
box in my garage while I figure out the rest. Being in a
small town with limited access to various Audi parts to
look at and measure is a disadvantage here...I'll
appreciate any help, any of you can provide.  

Where this project really got expensive is when I thought "
Gee, with that great braking and handling ability my car is
going to have, It's really a shame it doesn't have more
power"  So I started looking for an MC motor. What I found,
and it too is sitting, waiting, in a crate, is a '92 S4
motor with 15k miles on the clock. 

See what you have done Brendan! I'm spending my children's
inheritance. :-)

Special thanks to Brendan, Scott, Todd, Sean, Mark, Phil,
Eddie, Steve, Dave, Ben and all those of you who don't
appreciate how much you helped. I do. I owe some of you a
ride and perhaps a mega brew afterwards. 

Thanks,

Bruce
bbell@bbell.com