RE: Air Flow in a bypass valve

[STEADIRIC@aol.com]

QshipQ stickes his foot in his mouth again with the following.

>> The valve was installed correctly.....  And this is not something that
>>is limited to my car, The two other cars in the test program both HAD
> > to be converted over to the HKS because of the early dump problem.
> >
>Ok, defective valves, guilt by association the argument.  

4 defective valves bought from two different suppliers over a 6 month 
period......  Right.......

>9psi is early, the stock k24 turbo cars bypass valve would open early 
>too with this argument if that's the case, it doesn't.  They are rated at 
14psi+. 
> AIR DENSITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BYPASS VALVE OPERATION.  
>You are NOT, by definition,talking about Desinty (your spelling) you are
>talking about FLOW and Boost Pressure. 

The valve on the K24 app is not opening because of a Density problem,  
That little turbo is a heat pump above 10psi in the 10V and 20V app.  
Your not doing your homework here Scott, and in lot's of other places 
too.....You need to look at your PR equations again, there wrong because 
your assuming things, Just like your Assuming that PSI and Density are 
the same thing..... They are not, just ask a pilot about Density altitude 
vs Pressure Altitude.  Thank God your not a pilot 'cause you'd be a 
smoking hole in the ground......

> > Two of the Bosch valves is NOT smaller and simpler to install....  
> > Besides they will still open early......
>Comparing the aluminum 24 psi valve, NOT the Bosch stock, tho 2 sports could
>prolly handle most stage II mods.  Considering the Blue t-body hoses
>available to most of us, I claim that "simpler" might be relative to modus. 

Hunh?  Let's see, two valves that both dump early is just twice the area 
for the charge air to exit from.....  One valve that works is all that 
you need, which is the reason that I did the Mod correctly with the HKS 
valve.

>QSHIPQ -
> >>DENSITY is not an applicable term to a by pass valve.  PSI and FLOW are.
> 
> > Don't you wish you were right.......  Density is what we are trying to 
> > achive with a turbo (More O2 molecules per CC), NOT psi.
>  >>
>Density Ratio in a combustion chamber at Volumetric Efficiency is different
>than an absolute psi/flow number at a bypass valve, it's flow@pressure,
>measured in x-CFM @ x-pressure.  Not sure a thorough understanding of flow
>being proferred by you.  

I understand it. You don't, read on.......

>Air is a fluid by definition.  

Wrong!  Air is a gas that is governed by very complex fluid dynamics 
computations.

Someone else that stayed awake during his physics classes (Wolff) nicley 
back's this up with the following....

>Ummm, I really don't want to get stuck in this whole thing, but "air is
>a fluid by definition" is wrong. Therefore your whole example is wrong.
>Air is a gas and there are some pretty complex formulas to express
>pressure, volume and temperature of a gas while it is static. As soon as
>it starts moving you can break out the Cray.
>Wolff
>
>P.S. I wish I remembered enough of my physics classes to be more
>helpful.

Back to Scott's rant.....

>So, how 'bout this to
>KIS.  You have a faucet in your house with a 3/4in outlet (bypass valve -hey
>that's the outlet of the bosch bypass valve, didn't think of that Dave:).

Bzzzt....... it's one inch......

> Put 9 (Pb) psi behind the cold valve, open the cold side (33F degree water)
>to the maximum, you get 16oz glass in 1min (flow).  Close that valve, put
>9psi behind the hot side,  open the hot side (211F degree water) to maximum
>at 9psi (Pb), you get 16oz glass in 1 min (flow). 2 identical 16oz glasses
of
>water, one hot one cold.    What is different with the boost valve air
>between turbos at 9psi(Pb) substituting xCFM (flow) for gal/min?  None.  

Do this experiment correctly with a gas and you'll get a higher Density 
at low temp than high temp. Pilot's worry about Hot and High situations, 
Why?  Hotter air has less density, less density = less lift and less 
power.  You can go to extremes in the other direction and get too cold 
and too dense, Siberia for instance where an engine will actually make 
less power, This can be proved with Topping charts for helicopters.

>Pretty basic stuff here...   Again.  

IF you understand it, which by example your showing that you 
don't.........  BTW wanna try to impeach my info, get the books first and 
read up.  "The Art And Science Of Flying Helicopters" by Shawn Coyle has 
a very succient section entitled "Helicopter Engines And Their Controls" 
page 71 and 72 will be of particular interest to you.

BTW if it's not a density issue why was water injection developed?  I'll 
even give you the answer, it's used primarily to increase the DENSITY of 
the aircharge.........

Lesson over.

I now return you to the normally scheduled flame fest..........


Later!


Eric Fletcher S.O.C.
'87 5KCSTQ with WAY too many toys.....

According to Einstein, the faster you go, the longer you live.

St. Louis, MO

STEADIRIC@aol.com