Shooting the messenger out of 'r'eason

[QSHIPQ@aol.com]

>Thanks for the note DeWitt, the answers to your questions are exactly what I
want >to know.   What is the effect of a stock IC on the performance of
aftermarket turbos? 

>I am admittedly ignorant of things turbo related.  But, I do have a cup full
of >common sense.  When I read that a particular IC is 50% or 55% or 74% or
>whatever % efficient, all I ask is that someone smarter than me, ie., those
on the >list that sell "aftermarket" turbos and make no secret about it,
ASSUME the >numbers to be correct, and then tell us what practical effect, if
any, that stated >efficiency [ineff] has on the "performance" of the
turbochargers they sell.  Really, >this is a simple hypothetical:  If you
assume that an IC is ___% efficient at ____, >then what, if any, effect does
that intercooler have on the performance of a turbo?

>I mean hey, if a person is being sold a $1,400+ turbo, should he not also be
told >that oh, if you really want the maximum performance from the turbo, you
will also >need to spend $? on an IC?  I can see how such a statement would
effect sales, >>but, if honesty is what we seek....
>Bruce        

Bruce:
I will ask only once for you to ease up some.  Given what has been posted
here in the last month, I smile at most of the attacks on me, since usually
we still move forward in spirit, despite my cynicism.

I find it hard to believe that you are looking to be spoon fed, yet your
posts to date indicate that is so.  The conclusions you can draw, to me are
obvious, even to one that "claims" ignorance.  Make the conclusion based on
SoC's posted numbers, you don't need any more than those to draw one.  If you
believe them, then you don't need any others.  Reread Eric's post on the pre
IC "Gross PR" and his explanation of the stock IC and all the effects of that
"Net" boost.  THAT IS EXACTLY ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION, if you believe the
"Spearco" numbers posted. 

I don't take kindly to the spam tone at this point.  If not for my
"interference" or "conflict" of interest on this list, we would now have no
baseline understanding for the operation of a stock bypass valve, no baseline
for understanding of a failing PT, no baseline understanding of the "value"
of EGT, an unclear baseline understanding of engine and turbocharger theory.
 At some point, patience come into play.  My posts haven't changed in modus
OR "math" and questions of them in my 4years here.

All to establish here, a BASELINE.  From there we can move forward exploring
and maybe even addressing the questions you have raised.  Blindly accepting
what was posted by a certain "expert" has a history here.  The blaring
question to YOU is what does IC efficiency do to a larger turbo.  The blaring
question to me is HOW did Spearco do their testing.  Not important to you?  I
argue BS.  What do the numbers mean unless they are repeatable?  Right now,
they aren't, so documented by SAE and Scott M vs. "the Spearco test".  WHAT
do you believe?  SoC? Fine.  Then buy an IC quick dude, cuz my turbo map for
your car as it sits (1.95bar mod), says you have already blown it up.  And
don't even THINK about putting a larger turbo on your car with that IC core
in it.  

I am willing to post a lot of questions (that you claim you don't know to
ask) about claims, to help this list learn, and me as well.  AT what point do
you look to the SOURCE of claims, instead of the one who questions them?  I'm
just a nerd, fascinated by claims.  

I am happy to let this thread die RIGHT NOW.  I am also happy to putt-putt on
my own, not challenging a thing, accepting all posts as gospel, cuz no one
has a reason to lie.  I don't call anyone a liar, that is a corner few take
kindly to.  I can easily question and redirect, and requestion to get to the
baseline, THEN understand where the "issue" lies (pun intended).  There is
absolutely no difference in this thread.  So, it makes me think there might
be more in this for you than meets the keyboard.

There are a BUNCH of knowledgeable folks here that could answer the questions
you have proposed, but maybe see my ascribed position as the purger of BS as
not so desireable.  With this post, I'm getting the same feeling others do.
 Happy to stop this right now and return to the batcave.  

Regarding my "selling aftermarket turbos and making no secret about it"...
 Find me one .sig line that does that in my 4 years here.  OR an ad.  And
where did you get that "$1400+" price?  Give me a call first, wouldjya?

I don't expect apologies or thanks for trying to push baseline, some slack
might be nice.


My .02

Scott Justusson
QSHIPQ@aol.com
'87 5ktqwRS2
'86 5ktqw
'84 Urq