Re: Audi Kool-Aid, Pt. II (long)

["Lawson, Dave" <dlawson@ball.com>]

Matt writes,

>
4)  The quattros are more stable at 7 or 8/10s they are not more stable
at
the limit.  A competent driver can hang the tail out on a rwd car and
hold
it.  In my experience, a quattro does not have a gray area. The car is
rock
solid and then, if pushed really hard, it snaps.
>

I will toss my $0.02 cents in here... I don't have this issue of
perfromance car yet, but I somewhat agree with what you are saying. I
think all these discussions should be prefaced with which version of the
quattro drivetrain is under scrutiny. I am sure the article is working
with the latest version of q with EDL.

Refering to the discussion a week ago about labeling the quattro
development timeline, what you say about "7/10 and then snapping"
applies to the TORSEN equipped center differential cars. I believe this
is the greatest contributor to the behavior you describe. About 2 or 3
years ago a discussion about the handling traites of Torsen cars was
started and then went off-line between a few people. It would be nice if
some of this info surfaced and I am sure many of us can benefit from it.


After my 86 GT was totalled, I replaced it with a 90 200 TQ wagon. And
this car has suprised me on more than once this past fall and winter. I
have been driving my 83 ur-q  with qV1 (locable center/rear diffs) since
1989 and the torsen car is a huge difference. During dry and 7/10s
driving there is not much difference but when road conditions degrade
and driving at the limit, the torsen car is quite different. You can
break the back end out on the wagon much easier than the ur-q. This is
very noticable on icy pavement. I have to work the ur-q very hard to get
the back end to come around and it is even harder when the center diff
is locked. And twice this winter on the wagon I have had all 4 tires
spinning and having no forward movement. This is with Gislaved snow/ice
tires. I don't recall this happening with the ur-q, even on the ice
track at Steamboat. 

I haven't seen anyone do any tests, but I contend that a generation I
quattro will will outperform any later version of quattro in a similar
series of tests you describe from the article. I think Audi made a very
consious decision here, by going for seamless <7/10 handling knowing
that 99% of the buyers never explore the last 2 or 3/10s of what their
cars will do. This fact comes to the surface when you take a poll of who
has ever turned(or pushed) a diff lock switch. People don't know what it
does and are afraid to take the chance thinking that they will break
their drivetrains.

Audi knows that for 10/10ths handling you don't put a torsen in the
center diff position. Just review the quattro race history and you won't
find one mentioned anywhere. For this type of application they turn to
different technologies including no center diffs or sometimes viscous
couplings.

I know QSHIPQ has mentioned the dark side of the torsen before and I
think Audidudi has some opinions as he now owns/drives both types of
cars. And I think Frank A. has made the change from a 4kq to the S4 and
probably has some input and others will too. From my seat torsen cars
need to be treated with respect when exploring those last 2/10ths.
That's why I am taking my 200q wagon to Steamboat this coming weekend
and see if I can get a better understanding of it's handling at the
limit. And it's why I am putting in a switch to the rear diff so I can
keep it locked all the time.
-
Dave Lawson